Head for the bunker and harden the electronics

[Seth]

I highly recommend that everyone read ONE SECOND AFTER, by WILLIAM R. FORSTCHEN.

This is a very real threat. North Korea could very easily devolve the rest of the planet back into pre-industrial society.

North Korea developing 'electromagnetic pulse weapons'
AFP NewsAFP News – 8 hours ago

South Korea's spy agency said Monday that North Korea was using Russian technology to develop electromagnetic pulse weapons aimed at paralysing military electronic equipment south of the border.

The National Intelligence Service (NIS) said in a report to parliament that the North had purchased Russian electromagnetic pulse (EMP) weaponry to develop its own versions.

EMP weapons are used to damage to electronic equipment. At higher energy levels, an EMP event can cause more widespread damage including to aircraft structures and other objects.

Continues

[Brian Peacock]

If a battlefield EMP weapon is a viable prospect the US will already have one.

[Ian]

The Soviets tested one in Kazakhstan fifty-odd years ago.

[Seth]

If a battlefield EMP weapon is a viable prospect the US will already have one.

It does.

[Brian Peacock]

Making this look even more like jingoistic scare mongering.

[Seth]

Making this look even more like jingoistic scare mongering.

Well, if you knew anything about nuclear weapons you would know that EVERY nuclear weapon is an EMP device. Whether North Korea can create a more effective EMP device that is perhaps non-nuclear in nature, so as to avoid the problems with obtaining nuclear materials, is an open question.

The point is that an EMP device set off at high altitude over any modern technological society would do pretty much as outlined in the book I mention. The US has known since the beginning that this is a threat, which is why much of our military hardware is EMP hardened (which is one reason it costs so much). The problem is that virtually NONE of our civilian electronic infrastructure is EMP hardened, and even a relatively small EMP weapon set off over, say, New York City, would cripple the US, in particular the US economy.

Smart people have known for decades that an EMP attack is far more likely than a nuclear explosion simply because it can be set off high in the atmosphere, where it has the greatest and most widespread effect and is the hardest to stop. That's what the Star Wars antiballistic missile "shield" was intended in part to prevent.

One single large high-altitude EMP burst could in fact cripple half the country in a microsecond or two. Virtually every automobile manufactured in the last 20 years uses computers that would be instantly fried, rendering them useless. That alone would cause chaos.

Which is why I own a 1994 Hummer and a spare transmission program chip that's stored in EMP protected metal boxes in the bunker, along with a bunch of communications equipment and various other sensitive electronics that will make life easier after an EMP attack. The only EMP sensitive part of the civilian Hummer that will cause problems is the 4L80E transmission chip. But even losing that won't render the vehicle totally inoperable because it was designed with a "limp home mode" built into the transmission itself that will allow it to operate without any chip at all.

And my 1994 Chevy Suburban uses a similar non-electronic transmission and isn't controlled by electronics.

With what I have I'll be sitting in the bunker watching my extensive collection of DVD's while you're grubbing about in the soil with a sharpened stick looking for roots to eat.

Have fun!

[Brian Peacock]

I don't need educating about the potential dangers of an EMP burst, nor does such information justify or excuse jingoistic scare mongering IMO.

[Ian]

No state government, even one as unpredictable and irrational as North Korea, would gain from such an attack since they'd be reduced to smoldering dust not long thereafter. A rogue element (by which I mean terrorists) is more of a concern, but is it really easier to acquire a pinch device than a nuke? I doubt it. And for it to do any real and lasting damage they'd have to get it up to a very high altitude, meaning using an aircraft. Since a nuke is more likely to be acquired, I don't think it likely that it'll be wasted on attempting a high-altitude EMP attack when there are other, more spectacular options.

Of course, state leaders do not always act rationally. Assuming they always use detached reasoning to weigh risk and gain and choose the most rational course is a holdover from economic theories. There are often other factors influencing their decisionmaking, and sometimes nations can choose what seems like an absurdly risky and unnecessary option. Pearl Harbor is a good case in point: most if not all of Japan's leaders knew they could not prevail in a full-scale war again the US, and that they would likely provoke nothing else if they attacked, but they eventually talked themselves into attacking anyway.

But I'm not on Seth's side, thinking I'd better get the bunker ready for an EMP attack. That's the weird thinking of survivalists, who seem to see apocalypse right around the corner. It ain't gonna happen.

I'm just babbling. It's late.

[FBM]

Well, the info is from SK's spy agency. Doesn't mean it's true. Could just be an oblique message or maneuvering.

[Azathoth]

NK make a lot of noise but I very much doubt china will ever let them actually do anything more than sabre rattling

[FBM]

Maybe their drive to develop nukes is to motivate everyone else into propping them up indefinitely.

[MrJonno]

More worried about a 1 megaton nuke dropping on my head than the tv blowing up (through that would be pretty traumatic too).

Not that there is a lot you can do about either, consumer electronics are meant to fall apart that's why they are so cheap so no one is going to bother hardening them and I would hope the military already do so

[Seth]

I don't need educating about the potential dangers of an EMP burst, nor does such information justify or excuse jingoistic scare mongering IMO.

Why not? Given the catastrophic results of a single EMP attack on a technological society anywhere on the planet it seems to me that there's far too little jingoistic scare-mongering going on. I'd say that most of the world has it's head firmly planted in the sand, or up its own ass, and is in denial of the threat.

People were a lot more rational in the 60s when they actually undertook civil defense preparations in anticipation of a nuclear attack. Look at the Soviet Union for example. The entirely of the Moscow subway was built as a primary fallout shelter for the citizenry, including blast doors and supplies storage.

You see any of that in New York or Boston?

Nope.

I lived through the Cuba scare and I still remember "duck and cover" drills in my elementary schools...that scared the crap out of me. I still have drawings I made when I was 10 of my proposed bomb shelters.

I don't think being aware of the threat or taking precautions and making preparations should it happen is at all "jingoistic scare mongering." I think it's part of rational disaster planning because most of the principles involved apply to every other kind of disaster, natural or man-made, that might strike...like catastrophic 1000-year floods in Colorado. I had an evacuation and sheltering plan where I lived for that threat because I'd lived through two somewhat smaller but still highly disruptive floods as a young man on the ranch. I also had plans for snowstorms which included long-term auxiliary power and other necessities that I made use of several times in my life. In one instance a winter storm took down the power line from the main to my house, and because it only served a single residence it was quite literally the last line to be restored, in no small part because the half-mile lane to my house was drifted more than three feet deep and the trucks couldn't get access. I was without power for three weeks, but didn't have any problems because I had a diesel auxiliary generator with a 2000 gallon fuel oil reserve. And to get out for food (after the iron rations ran out) I just cut the fence and drove across the neighbors snow-free pasture, bypassing the lane.

It's never a waste of time to think about and prepare for disasters. If the people in New Jersey had done so when Superstorm Sandy came along, things would have gone much more smoothly.

An EMP attack is just another threat that needs consideration and planning, which might be as simple as EMP-securing a couple of radio receivers and even walkie-talkies in a sealed, grounded metal box so you have a way to communicate if everything else is fried.

[Seth]

No state government, even one as unpredictable and irrational as North Korea, would gain from such an attack since they'd be reduced to smoldering dust not long thereafter.

You're improvidently assuming sanity on the part of the NK government.

A rogue element (by which I mean terrorists) is more of a concern, but is it really easier to acquire a pinch device than a nuke? I doubt it. And for it to do any real and lasting damage they'd have to get it up to a very high altitude, meaning using an aircraft. Since a nuke is more likely to be acquired, I don't think it likely that it'll be wasted on attempting a high-altitude EMP attack when there are other, more spectacular options

Combine an EMP device with the long-range ballistic missiles they have already developed and they could very easily fry South Korea's electrical infrastructure and cripple it long enough to invade, which as been their goal for decades.

Of course, state leaders do not always act rationally. Assuming they always use detached reasoning to weigh risk and gain and choose the most rational course is a holdover from economic theories. There are often other factors influencing their decisionmaking, and sometimes nations can choose what seems like an absurdly risky and unnecessary option. Pearl Harbor is a good case in point: most if not all of Japan's leaders knew they could not prevail in a full-scale war again the US, and that they would likely provoke nothing else if they attacked, but they eventually talked themselves into attacking anyway.

Politics makes strange bedfellows.

But I'm not on Seth's side, thinking I'd better get the bunker ready for an EMP attack. That's the weird thinking of survivalists, who seem to see apocalypse right around the corner. It ain't gonna happen.

The good news is that once the bunker is prepared for EMP, it's done and you don't have to worry about it anymore.

[Azathoth]

No state government, even one as unpredictable and irrational as North Korea, would gain from such an attack since they'd be reduced to smoldering dust not long thereafter.

You're improvidently assuming sanity on the part of the NK Chinese government.