Is the USA uncivilised?

[Hermit]

The best thing that could happen to Cuba would be an immediate suspension of the embargo.

Best thing for Cuba? Sure. Question is, does the Cuban government care enough about their people to pay compensation for property seized by the Castro regime? That would go a long way towards quelling support for the embargo in the U.S.

Failing that, they'll likely have to wait for the Castro brothers to die. It won't be a long wait.

Perhaps the US government could do a similar exercise of compensation to the North American Indians?

I think we'll just live with their embargo.

So, it's the greed of cuban exiles that is keeping the stalemate happening...

It's not greed to want what you worked hard to earn.

In the Batista era, I don't think we're talking about ma and pa shopkeepers...

We are talking plantation and factory owners who made the treatment of blacks in the ante-bellum South look like a picnic. The Cuban revolution wasn't an evil Marxist conspiracy, it was the overthrow of a brutal regime, whose oligarchs were right evil bastards. Their descendants can whistle for their money, as far as the Cuban people are concerned...

At this point it might be well worthwhile to read the speech of Senator John F. Kennedy, given at the Cincinnati, Ohio, Democratic Dinner on October 6, 1960.

[Seabass]

Not shedding a tear, just wondering why the US can't let go of vindictive emotions, and move on...

Australia didn't spend five decades staring down the barrel of a nuclear arsenal. Australia didn't have to endure the terror of looking nuclear apocalypse in the face after Cuba decided to let the Rooskies situate nukes on its back doorstep.

Huh? No Russian nuclear missiles allowed in a country near the to the USA, but it's OK for the US to install them in Turkey?

And where did I say that was OK?

What's good for the goose...

We see patterns of behavior like this from countless nations throughout human history, and still some folks seem convinced that Americans are uniquely evil in ways others aren't.

Which is why the Europeans maintain the embargo against the Germans to this day, I suppose, and the French in particular.

When Cuba becomes a liberal democracy like Germany, I am sure the USA will happily lift the embargo.

Grow up, blinkereyes.

...

[cronus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24787637

Hakimullah Mehsud drone strike: 'Death of peace efforts'

Pakistan's interior minister has said the death of Pakistani Taliban leader Hakimullah Mehsud has destroyed the country's nascent peace process.

"This is not just the killing of one person, it's the death of all peace efforts," Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan said.

Pakistan's security forces have been put on high alert following the US drone strike on Friday.

It came a day before a Pakistani delegation had been due to fly to North Waziristan to meet Mehsud.

Mr Nisar said the government would lodge an official protest with the US embassy.

He accused the United States of "scuttling" efforts to begin peace talks, and said "every aspect" of Pakistan's co-operation with Washington would be reviewed.

Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif had pledged to talk with the Taliban to try to end its campaign of violence, which has left thousands dead in bombings and shootings across the country.

Mehsud was killed along with four other people - including two of his bodyguards - when four missiles struck their vehicle in the north-western region of North Waziristan, a senior Taliban official told the BBC.

Pakistani media say Mehsud's funeral has taken place at an unknown location in the tribal area of North Waziristan.

The Taliban's ruling council met on Saturday to choose a new leader. Unconfirmed reports say regional commander Khan Said Sajna has been elected to the top job.

Militants have in the past carried out retaliatory attacks after the killings of other Taliban commanders.

As well as Mehsud, the previous Pakistan Taliban leader was killed in a drone strike, in 2009.

(continued, why not simply use gas? that's a reflection on US heavy handed policy not a recommendation by the way.....)

[Seth]

Seth

It is hard to get past your paranoia when debating with you. You have such powerful pre-judgements in relation to right wing and redneck matters. The problem is that you believe all sorts of stuff for which evidence is pretty damn skinny.

Your problem is that you don't believe stuff for which the evidence is smacking you in the face like a wet herring in the hands of Leona Helmsly.

The embargo on Cuba has achieved exactly zero in terms of causing desirable change, and has caused immense harm to the poor people of Cuba, in the form of exacerbating poverty.

Wrong. There's that herring-smack again. Everything bad that's happened or is happening in Cuba is the direct, complete and sole responsibility of the Castro regime and Marxism. All the regime has to do is give up Marxism and take up a civilized form of government and all the bad things go away in a matter of months as Americans pour recreational and tourist development money into Cuba. Before Castro came along, Havana was one of the premier tourist destinations in the world.

Your sort of idiotic attempts at blame-shifting are typical of ignorant demagogary foisted off as reason by people who are so ideologically blindered by their hatred of liberty that they can't see past their spite.

The United States refuses to allow a Marxist tyrant to flourish who threatened the very safety of the entire planet with his belligerence and has never, ever shown even the smallest remorse much less any intent to give up his iron-fisted tyrannical despotism. When the Castro regime is dead or overthrown and the people of Cuba are free again, then the US will pour it's bounty out on them. But until then the pressure has to be kept up and our resolve remain firm.

By the way, did you hear that Venezuela's Marxist government (to which Obama gave two BILLION dollars) just expropriated two US-owned oil rigs as "essential to Venezuela's development?" That was in the paper today. How long do you think it will be before every foreign investor in Venezuela pulls out and goes all Cuba on their ass? Not very long I hope.

If anything, it has supported the Castro government's accusations that the USA is evil.

*SMACK*

I agree that the embargo is evil.

*SMACK*

I even agree that the US administration is partly evil.

Well, this particular one is, but mostly because it's being lead by a Marxist.

The American people are not, of course. They are just the usual mixture of 10% very good, 80% ordinary, and 10% asshole which is found in every population.

Gee, thanks.

[Svartalf]

Typical American economic warfare against a rival. Free trade my lordly rear. They're just scared that a relaxation of the embargo will result in an influx of cheap Cuban heels, destroying the American heel industry.

As long as they keep making Republicans, we're covered in that department.

I thought the Republicans were the bell end industry?

[Seth]

Well said, laklak

It seems a no brainer to me. I understand the original ideas behind the embargo, it was the height of the Cold War and Khrushchev was busy banging his shoes on a table and waving midrange missiles at Florida, but since the wall fell there's been no rational reason to keep it in place. Most of the opposition to ending it is just sour grapes from the Cuban American community, but they would be the ones most likely to benefit from it. Once the embargo ends they'll be flocking back, replete with fat accounts full of Yankee Dollars, opening casinos and hotels. I'd invest there in a bloody heartbeat.

So would I. My grandfather had stock in several Cuban companies back about 1925. I found the stock certificates the other day, which are now worthless because of Castro. But not until the Castro regime is gone and there's liberty in Cuba.

[Svartalf]

I'm lucky MY family wasn't ruined by the Russian Bonds scandal (of course, my ancestors managed to squander their fortune otherwise)

[laklak]

North Waziristan? Where's that, 40 miles north of Bumfuck, Fuckistan?

[Seth]

I'm lucky MY family wasn't ruined by the Russian Bonds scandal (of course, my ancestors managed to squander their fortune otherwise)

Interestingly, I also found some Venezuelan national railroad bonds. They were paid off before the Marxists showed up fortunately.

[Blind groper]

Seth

This discussion was not about whether Castro communism is good or bad. I agree it is bad.

The discussion is about whether the USA should lift the embargo. 98% of United Nations members voted that it should be lifted. Only the arrogant US administration and its ass licker, Israel, opposed. Note that all of the other traditional allies of the USA voted to lift the embargo.

The majority is not always right, but in this case it is. There is no practical point in that embargo, apart from supporting the hubris of the American government.

[laklak]

I can't wait for the embargo to end, imagine the property prices. Waltz into Havana with a couple of hundred thou and you're on the beach in a hacienda with lots of porches and cheap servants. Better be ready to move fast, though, because Marriott, Hilton and Caesar's Palace are sitting on billions waiting for the largest and most unspoiled island in the Caribbean to join the 21st century. I'll bet there will be a few good decades of post-colonial bliss before it's wall to wall high rises and chain restaurants. Get in while the gettings good.

[JimC]

Unconfirmed reports say regional commander Khan Said Sajna has been elected to the top job.

I wonder how much persuasion was needed...

"Look, Khan old chap, you either accept the nomination, or a little accident with an AK47 might just happen..."

[Warren Dew]

We see patterns of behavior like this from countless nations throughout human history, and still some folks seem convinced that Americans are uniquely evil in ways others aren't.

Which is why the Europeans maintain the embargo against the Germans to this day, I suppose, and the French in particular.

If Hitler were still in charge of Germany, you can bet they would.

[klr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24787637

Hakimullah Mehsud drone strike: 'Death of peace efforts'

Pakistan's interior minister has said the death of Pakistani Taliban leader Hakimullah Mehsud has destroyed the country's nascent peace process.

"This is not just the killing of one person, it's the death of all peace efforts," Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan said.

Pakistan's security forces have been put on high alert following the US drone strike on Friday.

It came a day before a Pakistani delegation had been due to fly to North Waziristan to meet Mehsud.

Mr Nisar said the government would lodge an official protest with the US embassy.

He accused the United States of "scuttling" efforts to begin peace talks, and said "every aspect" of Pakistan's co-operation with Washington would be reviewed.

...

Well, he would say that, wouldn't he? Privately, he might think the USA has done him a favour, as the late Taliban leader was known to be particularly intransigent.

[Seth]

Seth

This discussion was not about whether Castro communism is good or bad. I agree it is bad.

The discussion is about whether the USA should lift the embargo. 98% of United Nations members voted that it should be lifted. Only the arrogant US administration and its ass licker, Israel, opposed. Note that all of the other traditional allies of the USA voted to lift the embargo.

The majority is not always right, but in this case it is. There is no practical point in that embargo, apart from supporting the hubris of the American government.

We disagree. And we don't give a flying fuck what "98% of the United Nations members" want. We know what they want. They want to deconstruct the US because they are jealous of our success and want to see us brought low. Fuck the UN and fuck Castro and everybody associated with them. When they are dead or in prison we'll be glad to lift the embargo and embrace Cuban prosperity.