Prostitution

[RESiNATE]

At the time of writing I must confess to not have read the particulars of the proposed changes in the law regarding the sex workers industry. However, there are three points of interest that have been highlighted by the press and news agencies that merit discussion. Those points are as follows:

1. It will be illegal to have sex with trafficked or 'pimped' prostitutes
2. Ignorance will not be defensible
3. Offenders could face charges of rape

With regards to the first point, I fail to see how such a stipulation can be reasonably safeguarded against. Indeed, the same goes for the second point. And as for the third point, there is a clear difference between rape and consensual sex, paid for or otherwise.

Obviously, there are cases that we can examine where girls have been 'tricked' into prostitution through human trafficking. They are surreptitiously held against their will by false promises or fabricated debt. This activity, without doubt or equivocation, should be stamped out with the perpetrators of such facing punishment of the highest order. Furthermore, there are girls who find themselves 'chained' to the sex trade through a need to feed their drug habits (whether self-induced or engineered by so-called 'pimps'), or for them to simply survive and provide. Those girls need help to either free themselves from the grip of addiction (in respect of drug users) or, indeed also, to rehabilitate themselves towards a different career if they so choose.

I often wonder at the circumstances that lead a woman to sell her body, and I feel a sense of desperation in many cases. However, we must also realise and accept the fact that many women choose to be a part of the oldest profession and how, even with these proposals, they continually become the victims of outdated stigmatism and distain.

Once again, the Home Office has demonstrated that they are patently unaware of the whole picture. They have, as they always do, jumped upon misguided statistics and flawed reasoning.

As I understand it, the Home Office says that 80% of sex workers are victims of immigrant trafficking. What the statistics actually show is that 80% of sex workers are immigrants, which doesn't necessarily follow that they are all the victims of human traffickers.

Once again, the Home Office is focusing on the exploitation by the minority without considering the benefit that the majority of sex workers give our society.

There has always been a market for prostitution; there are people who don't want relationships, there are those who can't get relationships, and there are those who, for whatever reason, don't have a sexually satisfying relationship. It is not our place to judge or condemn a person for wanting (or having) to turn to a professional for sexual gratification, so far as the business is consensual, safe, and is harming no one.

The proposals put forth by the Government are unworkable, unenforceable, and short-sighted.

As with recreational drugs, the only way to protect society, and in particular the sex workers, is to legalise prostitution.

I have discovered that the sex industry is worth over £770million annually which could contribute upwards of £250million a year in tax revenue – although, I have yet to research this fully.

In this time of financial crisis, it surely makes sense to capitalise on something that will not 'go away'. The societal benefits are, as I see it, plain to see.

Clean, regulated, and accessible establishments will curb the number of sexually transmitted diseases (STI's) and in themselves guard against the exploitation and entrapment that affects those that are the subject of the law review. Women, and indeed men, that choose this profession will be better served by a system that removes the austerity that they currently face in regards to reporting abuse.
And those that need the services that are offered by prostitutes, for whatever reason, can enjoy their 'vice' in an environment that protects all concerned. Furthermore, the taxes raised from the legalisation of the sex trade will pay towards the health care of the workers, and will cover the cost of counselling and rehabilitation for those that require it.

The law review will not solve the problems that it is trying to solve, nor will it deter the majority from continuing to use prostitutes. It will, however, drive the industry further underground which will, in turn, make it harder for the authorities to clamp down on the illegal trade that currently exists and inhibit those that are exploited from seeking help.

Legalise prostitution.

Res…

[Achtland]

it is a poorly regulated profesion and needs sorting out with compassion, but not by me.
it is another topic that should be debated openly in the proper legal area's.

that is all

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Like drugs, prostitution is never ever sensibly discussed in government because of the knee-jerk, Daily Mail factor. The middle-England, floating voters that decide every election in Britain are unwilling to listen to arguments in favour of legalising prostitution due to years of negative stereotyping. This leads both of the main political parties trying to secure the 'moral highground' (read 'lowest common denominator') and ridiculing any hints at progressive action by the other.

Prohibition, whether of alcohol, drugs, prostitution, gambling, or anything else, doesn't work! It drives problems underground, creates black-economies and puts money in the hands of criminals. Sadly, while the public equates regulation of such industries with tacit approval, and the opposition (whoever they are) jumps on this assumption in order to score political points, we are stuck with it.

[Shaker]

Like drugs, prostitution is never ever sensibly discussed in government because of the knee-jerk, Daily Mail factor. The middle-England, floating voters that decide every election in Britain are unwilling to listen to arguments in favour of legalising prostitution due to years of negative stereotyping. This leads both of the main political parties trying to secure the 'moral highground' (read 'lowest common denominator') and ridiculing any hints at progressive action by the other.

Prohibition, whether of alcohol, drugs, prostitution, gambling, or anything else, doesn't work! It drives problems underground, creates black-economies and puts money in the hands of criminals. Sadly, while the public equates regulation of such industries with tacit approval, and the opposition (whoever they are) jumps on this assumption in order to score political points, we are stuck with it.

Well that's completely knackered my contribution!

[Clinton Huxley]

If prostitution were legalised and regulated, presumably MPs would be able to claim "ladies of the night" on their expenses.

XC has said it all - sensible, adult debates about contentious topics are all but impossible in the public domain in the UK and will be until someone burns down the offices of the Daily Mail.

[FBM]

If US and Korean politicians are any indication, such laws are the products of hypocrites, anyway. There were mass demonstrations by sex workers over here a while back after the new (zealot Christian-led) administration decided to start 'cleaning up' the red light districts. Results of the crackdown? A whole bunch of arrested gov't workers!

[Geoff]

Which reminds me of a folk(ish) song regularly performed (by a lady called Joan, appropriately) at my local singaround night:

My name is Joan, the Leather Queen; you all know what I do.
My clientele is so select, like something from Who's Who.
They come to me to punish them for every naughty prank.
And then they're all so grateful, I go laughing to the bank.

Crack, crack goes the whip! Oh, how the lashes sting!
I tie up chaps with chains and straps, and beat them till they sing!
I make them crawl so humbly, as I stand there serene,
There's none can treat a man so cruel, as Joan, the Leather Queen!

My Ma was into discipline for years ere I was born.
She'd go to work at six o'clock and get to bed at dawn.
Sometimes she took me with her, when I was home from school.
And once she let me cane my old headmaster something cruel!

The Bishop tells his flock, "The Lord forgives, so do not fear".
Then he comes to me 'cos he knows that he gets no forgiveness here!
Lord Justice Hughs has liberal views on every this-and-that.
To me he'll come and bare his bum, and cry "Bring back the cat!"

There's a lovely tall dark gypsy lad I might even do for free.
He likes me to pet his lengro with a silver chain, you see.
He brings a new piece everytime, then leaves it as the score.
My stock of Long John's silver chain is a hundred yards or more.

In February of '92 came my blackest day , I'm sure,
For suddenly each thing I do is now against the law;
But there won'be any trouble, and I will be alright,
As long as our Chief Constable comes round each Tuesday night.

I always pay my Income Tax, my Rates and VAT,
I've a friend or two, in the revenue, who're very kind to me,
And twice a month they call around to collect whatever's due,
I pay my tax in whacks and smacks - don't you wish that you could too?

(folk festivals final verse)
I've a workshop here at Wigan (or wherever), just now it's all the crack!
Left at the festival office, and first door round the back:
There's lashings of surprises for you to come and see -
You may think that you can't dance or sing but you'll do both for me!

(standard last verse)
I must concede the life I lead may sound a trifle queer,
But I never harm a living soul who's not a volunteer,
And underneath my peep-hole bra beats an honest heart and true,
So perhaps you might come round one night and see what I can do!

[The Red Fox]

I agree with everything said so far, but I would like to add that the religious element in government doesn't help. Despite the population being, to a large extent, non-religious or secular there are a surprising number of MPs with puritanical views. Considering they're from the same social strata as "middle England" that isn't surprising, but it does mean we will be stuck with backwards attitudes for a very long time. Until there is a more proportional electoral system, or until rational views exist among the voting majority we're stuck with shitty, unworkable, socially destructive policies.

1. It will be illegal to have sex with trafficked or 'pimped' prostitutes
2. Ignorance will not be defensible
3. Offenders could face charges of rape

1) And how exactly is a client supposed to know? Do most clients even care? It's just criminalising something which has come about due to the situation prostitution is in over here. Legalised prostitution would dramatically reduce the amount of pimps and traffickers due to licensing regulations. Doing this Europe wide would be even more beneficial and the police would have a much smaller criminal element to deal with.

2) Is ignorance ever a defence? I know nothing about law. Still I'm sure other defences would be tried. "I didn't know she was a prossie, your honour, I was just giving her money for a cab home".

3) I understand these women are trafficked and more than likely giving consent under duress, but I don't see how criminalising clients will help solve the root problem, which is those women getting trafficked in the first place. Legalise the trade and then women who wish to can work for licensed brothels and any rape which does occur can be much more easily reported to the police. At the moment very few prostitutes have the opportunities to do so either because of police negligence when it comes to sex workers or because of abusive pimps.

To paraphrase George Carlin "selling is legal, fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?"

[FBM]

To paraphrase George Carlin "selling is legal, fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?"

Indeed. You can pay someone to massage almost your entire body, giving you deep, intense pleasure, unless it involves the 'naughty bits'. Then it's jail time. How bullshit is that?

[The Red Fox]

To paraphrase George Carlin "selling is legal, fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?"

Indeed. You can pay someone to massage almost your entire body, giving you deep, intense pleasure, unless it involves the 'naughty bits'. Then it's jail time. How bullshit is that?

It's bullshit of biblical proportions.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

To paraphrase George Carlin "selling is legal, fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?"

Indeed. You can pay someone to massage almost your entire body, giving you deep, intense pleasure, unless it involves the 'naughty bits'. Then it's jail time. How bullshit is that?

It's bullshit of biblical proportions.

All the best bullshit is.

[Lozzer]

This is why democracy is gay. Retards may speak for themselves, and they may govern themselves, but I don't want to be governed by them. Democracy is redundant because it revolves around the most aired and popular ideas, not the correct and most logical ones. I'm not anti-democracy, but I'm not pro-democracy. Majority rule doesn't work in mental institutions--even if democracy is morally right.

[Pappa]

This is why democracy is gay. Retards may speak for themselves, and they may govern themselves, but I don't want to be governed by them. Democracy is redundant because it revolves around the most aired and popular ideas, not the correct and most logical ones. I'm not anti-democracy, but I'm not pro-democracy. Majority rule doesn't work in mental institutions--even if democracy is morally right.

What would you advocate in its place?

[Hermit]

I agree with both these quotes by Winston Churchill:

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

However,

“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”




Prostitution has been legal in most or all Australian states for quite some years now. No harm has resulted, and I guess that most prostitutes are better off for it.

Some states have also decriminalised the use and small-scale cultivation of marijuana. Organised crime really hates that.

New South Wales runs a safe injection room in an area where heroin users gravitate. Heroin use has not increased as a result, the reduction in overdoses and spread of AIDS is significant and measurable, yet conservatives are fighting tooth and nail to have it closed down.

[lordpasternack]

Prostitution in and of itself isn't illegal in the UK - but many of the peripheral activities that go along with it are - such as soliciting on the street, working in a brothel, or placing solicitous adverts in certain places describing in no uncertain terms the services offered.

The actual act of paying or receiving cash (or some other form of trade) for sex is not criminal here - and many "escorts" live completely within the country's laws (and are registered self-employed and taxed as escorts) in doing what they do.

Here's a relevant Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe

(The above is a copy and paste job of a post I made at RDF recently, in a thread that was oddly locked - probably because it was discussing sex, and an activity that's probably illegal where RD.net's servers are, at that. )