New Order Gone Bad

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JacksSmirkingRevenge
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by JacksSmirkingRevenge » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:31 pm

klr wrote:
JacksSmirkingRevenge wrote:
klr wrote:
JacksSmirkingRevenge wrote:Society seems to be handing nazis victory on a plate by allowing them the exclusivity of of this and similar symbols.
What the fuck's wrong with the swastika and similar designs anyway..? I'm wearing it right now... :dunno:

People need to grow the fuck up.
The swastika was (and still is) used as good luck symbol in parts of Asia. In the window of a nearby art shop (or suchlike), there's an extravagantly decorated container of sorts, complete with a jewel-encrusted swastika on the side. It's certainly not a Nazi artefact.
Just about every society has used the swastika in their culture at some point.
Shit, doesn't even the Finnish air force still use it?
Christ no, they had to get rid of it after they joined the Allies late in WW II.

Anyway, the ban on Nazi swastikas in aircraft kits also affect the Finns. :tearhair:
Seems the Finnish Training Air Wing still use it:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Training_A ... _Air_Force
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by klr » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:48 pm

Wow. That's news to me. Seems to be just a unit flag though. If it was being used on aircraft - especially as the main national marking - I think I'd heard of it by now.
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by JacksSmirkingRevenge » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:09 pm

klr wrote:Wow. That's news to me. Seems to be just a unit flag though. If it was being used on aircraft - especially as the main national marking - I think I'd heard of it by now.
I have a sneaking feeling that it is actually used on planes somewhere, too. Can't for the life of me think where now...I'm probably mistaken. :think:
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by klr » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:17 pm

JacksSmirkingRevenge wrote:
klr wrote:Wow. That's news to me. Seems to be just a unit flag though. If it was being used on aircraft - especially as the main national marking - I think I'd heard of it by now.
I have a sneaking feeling that it is actually used on planes somewhere, too. Can't for the life of me think where now...I'm probably mistaken. :think:
If you find out, be sure to post it. :tup:
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by JacksSmirkingRevenge » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:22 pm

klr wrote:
JacksSmirkingRevenge wrote:
klr wrote:Wow. That's news to me. Seems to be just a unit flag though. If it was being used on aircraft - especially as the main national marking - I think I'd heard of it by now.
I have a sneaking feeling that it is actually used on planes somewhere, too. Can't for the life of me think where now...I'm probably mistaken. :think:
If you find out, be sure to post it. :tup:
Will do... I'm probably talking bollox, though. :shifty:
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by klr » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:38 pm

JacksSmirkingRevenge wrote:
klr wrote:
JacksSmirkingRevenge wrote:
klr wrote:Wow. That's news to me. Seems to be just a unit flag though. If it was being used on aircraft - especially as the main national marking - I think I'd heard of it by now.
I have a sneaking feeling that it is actually used on planes somewhere, too. Can't for the life of me think where now...I'm probably mistaken. :think:
If you find out, be sure to post it. :tup:
Will do... I'm probably talking bollox, though. :shifty:
:lol:

The Finnish use of the Swastika was completely unrelated to the Nazi use. The Finns started to use it much earlier on their aircraft, used it as the main insignia (as opposed to just on the tail), and used a quite different design.

BTW, that training unit flag is dated as "1918, 1958" on the actual image page, so it's obviously no longer in use. Sloppy Wikipedia ... who'd have thunk it? :eddy:
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by JacksSmirkingRevenge » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:04 am

Says "present day flag (from 1958)" (right-hand side, about halfway down the page) here:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

:dunno:
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by klr » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:14 pm

JacksSmirkingRevenge wrote:Says "present day flag (from 1958)" (right-hand side, about halfway down the page) here:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

:dunno:
Yes, but I can't find any reference to that anywhere else on the web, not even on the official web site. The skeptic in me remains ... undecided. :levi:
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by Warren Dew » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:36 pm

klr wrote:Anyway, the ban on Nazi swastikas in aircraft kits also affect the Finns.
There's a ban on swastikas in aircraft kits?

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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by klr » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:01 pm

Warren Dew wrote:
klr wrote:Anyway, the ban on Nazi swastikas in aircraft kits also affect the Finns.
There's a ban on swastikas in aircraft kits?
Yes, in the European Union at least, and probably elsewhere as well. Airbrushed out of history for 30 years or more - not depicted on the artwork, and the instructions don't alert you to the fact that they should be present (some used to do this in the long distance past). Some kit manufacturers will try to get around this by breaking each swastika into two separate decals, but I imagine if the authorities were really strict, they'd crack down on this as well.

About the only manufacturer I've seen that openly includes them is Tamiya from Japan. I'd love to know what happens when Tamiya kits reach Germany, which is where the law originates.

Oddly enough, there's nothing to stop you buying specialised decal sheets containing hundreds of Luftwaffe swastikas in all shapes and sizes, which is what I've done. You'd have thought that was the one thing above all else that would be verboten - maybe it is in Germany. :dunno:

The Finnish swastika has become guilty by association from what I can see, and it's now very rare to find it in in a kit. Since the Finns used it as the main insignia (as opposed to just on the tail with the Germans), this really hampers kit manufacturers. A new Airfix kit of the Gloster Gladiator bi-plane includes a ski-equipped version that the Finns used. But since that had the Finnish swastika, it was obviously off limits. It would probably have been OK in a number of countries, but the Germans would have said "nein". So Airfix did the next best thing, and depicted a Swedish volunteer unit that fought with the Finns.

Image
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by JimC » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:44 pm

Political correctness gone mad, at the expense of historical accuracy...
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by klr » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:50 pm

JimC wrote:Political correctness gone mad, at the expense of historical accuracy...
I wouldn't be so against it if they at least made it clear somewhere in the instructions that there should be swastikas, but they were just not including them.
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It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner

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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by JimC » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:52 pm

klr wrote:
JimC wrote:Political correctness gone mad, at the expense of historical accuracy...
I wouldn't be so against it if they at least made it clear somewhere in the instructions that there should be swastikas, but they were just not including them.
They could provide virtual swastikas...
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:48 am

MUFU.
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Re: New Order Gone Bad

Post by JimC » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:51 am

Moofoo?
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