Let's sentence Edward Snowden to....Russia!

[Xamonas Chegwé]

What happened to his asylum bid in Ecuador (or was it Venezuela)? Is that still on?

Presumably he preferred Russia.

I think the problem was getting there. I doubt there are many direct flights from Moscow to Quito - and the Merkins would be waiting with a warrant at any stopover, you can be sure! Of course, he may try to sneak out yet, hoping no-one's looking but my money's on Ian spotting him if he tries...

[Warren Dew]

He might also think he has a better chance at Iceland from Russia.

Although, to be honest, I do suspect there's more to the story than meets the eye here. While I think Snowden would have a problem with helping the Russian spies just as much as he did with the NSA, I could see him agreeing to help improve defenses against spying.

[orpheus]

Har de har har. I bet he thought he'd be wined and dined and given free Ukrainian teenagers to screw by the KGB.

I doubt very much he thought that. I'd like to see him pardoned - he committed crimes, but he brought to light things that were very much in the public's interest to know. He'd be a good case for jury nullification.

He did good.

[Ian]

Let's say you've hired a pool boy to work at your house. One day while you're out, he ransacks your home, steals every valuable he can get his hands on, sabotages your security system, hacks into your computer and copies all your personal and financial files, installs his own hidden recording devices around your house, burns the carpet, kills your dog, smashes or cuts up all the furniture, spray paints the walls, and then flies off to live with friends in another country. And, let's say that perhaps the friends in the other country that takes him in had put him up to the whole thing in the first place because you were a business rival of theirs. But just as he leaves, he sends your local newspaper photocopied proof that you've written a couple bad checks, and that's the only story that the public hears about for a while.

What's my point? Oh, nothing I'm sure. Now, let's get back to admiring Snowden for "what he did".

[orpheus]

Let's say you've hired a pool boy to work at your house. One day while you're out, he ransacks your home, steals every valuable he can get his hands on, sabotages your security system, hacks into your computer and copies all your personal and financial files, installs his own hidden recording devices around your house, burns the carpet, kills your dog, smashes or cuts up all the furniture, spray paints the walls, and then flies off to live with friends in another country. And, let's say that perhaps the friends in the other country that takes him in had put him up to the whole thing in the first place because you were a business rival of theirs. But just as he leaves, he sends your local newspaper photocopied proof that you've written a couple bad checks, and that's the only story that the public hears about for a while.

What's my point? Oh, nothing I'm sure. Now, let's get back to admiring Snowden for "what he did".

"written a couple bad checks". You're comparing the scope of what the NSA did (make that "does" - present tense) to writing a couple of bad checks?

[Ian]

And I'm comparing stealing valuables and spray painting walls to...

Hmm.... maybe in order to fully appreciate the analogy you have to multiply everything by a few orders of magnitude...

[orpheus]

And I'm comparing stealing valuables and spray painting walls to...

Hmm.... maybe in order to fully appreciate the analogy you have to multiply everything by a few orders of magnitude...

In your analogy, what business is the homeowner in? What does he actually do for a living? You conveniently left out that part.

[Ian]

Irrelevant. He's a businessman. And yes, maybe he shouldn't have risked writing some bad checks. Or maybe the checks only look bad at first glance. But none of that is the point.

[pErvinalia]

Let's say you've hired a pool boy to work at your house. One day while you're out, he ransacks your home, steals every valuable he can get his hands on, sabotages your security system, hacks into your computer and copies all your personal and financial files, installs his own hidden recording devices around your house, burns the carpet, kills your dog, smashes or cuts up all the furniture, spray paints the walls, and then flies off to live with friends in another country. And, let's say that perhaps the friends in the other country that takes him in had put him up to the whole thing in the first place because you were a business rival of theirs. But just as he leaves, he sends your local newspaper photocopied proof that you've written a couple bad checks, and that's the only story that the public hears about for a while.

What's my point? Oh, nothing I'm sure. Now, let's get back to admiring Snowden for "what he did".

You propaganda merchant, you!

[pErvinalia]

Irrelevant. He's a businessman. And yes, maybe he shouldn't have risked writing some bad checks. Or maybe the checks only look bad at first glance. But none of that is the point.

I think it's very much the point. If the state was overstepping its bounds, and trying to keep that a secret, then what he did was a good thing, regardless of any alleged wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean spying for Russia.

[orpheus]

Irrelevant. He's a businessman. And yes, maybe he shouldn't have risked writing some bad checks. Or maybe the checks only look bad at first glance. But none of that is the point.

I don't even know where to begin. So I won't.

[Ian]

Let's say you've hired a pool boy to work at your house. One day while you're out, he ransacks your home, steals every valuable he can get his hands on, sabotages your security system, hacks into your computer and copies all your personal and financial files, installs his own hidden recording devices around your house, burns the carpet, kills your dog, smashes or cuts up all the furniture, spray paints the walls, and then flies off to live with friends in another country. And, let's say that perhaps the friends in the other country that takes him in had put him up to the whole thing in the first place because you were a business rival of theirs. But just as he leaves, he sends your local newspaper photocopied proof that you've written a couple bad checks, and that's the only story that the public hears about for a while.

What's my point? Oh, nothing I'm sure. Now, let's get back to admiring Snowden for "what he did".

You propaganda merchant, you!

Yeah, that's all it is. Counterintelligence and catastrophic espionage damage and "whistleblower" cover stories never actually happen in real life.

[Ian]

Irrelevant. He's a businessman. And yes, maybe he shouldn't have risked writing some bad checks. Or maybe the checks only look bad at first glance. But none of that is the point.

I think it's very much the point. If the state was overstepping its bounds, and trying to keep that a secret, then what he did was a good thing, regardless of any alleged wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean spying for Russia.

That's HIS point. That's not my point. I like to look at context. And the context of this, I kid you not, is like saying I killed your whole family and got away with it but I did tell a reporter friend of mine that I was pretty sure your Dad was making some shady business deals... and then people went on saying I did a good thing. If you think I'm exaggerating, just keep an eye on the news for a good while.

[Ian]

Irrelevant. He's a businessman. And yes, maybe he shouldn't have risked writing some bad checks. Or maybe the checks only look bad at first glance. But none of that is the point.

I don't even know where to begin. So I won't.

Good idea. I think my real point here is: you actually DON'T know where to begin, at least not yet. We're not really talking about the same thing. And I've hinted at enough already.

[pErvinalia]

Irrelevant. He's a businessman. And yes, maybe he shouldn't have risked writing some bad checks. Or maybe the checks only look bad at first glance. But none of that is the point.

I think it's very much the point. If the state was overstepping its bounds, and trying to keep that a secret, then what he did was a good thing, regardless of any alleged wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean spying for Russia.

That's HIS point. That's not my point. I like to look at context. And the context of this, I kid you not, is like saying I killed your whole family and got away with it but I did tell a reporter friend of mine that I was pretty sure your Dad was making some shady business deals... and then people went on saying I did a good thing. If you think I'm exaggerating, just keep an eye on the news for a good while.

Yes, I'm sure the propaganda machine is firing up as we speak. Although the fact that it's taken this long to come to light, might suggest that it is actually true. I don't ultimately care. He exposed the "democratic" "free" state overstepping its bounds. That's a good thing. The US government is more of a threat to its people than Russia is, in my very experienced opinion.