Why are the WW2 vets angry at the Obama Admin?

[piscator]

"All the government is to me is a big chunk of my paycheck gone every week. Now these pricks won't even let me stay on my houseboat on Lake Powell!!!"

[Seth]

How come Seth suddenly believes in the concept of publicly-owned common property and rights to roam?

Well, because it IS public property. Perhaps it should NOT be public property...or at least some (or most) of it should be sold to private interests to wipe out the debt, but the fact is that right now public property is public property and doesn't belong to Obama or the democrats, it belongs to the people, from whom all authority flows. Our representatives shut down GOVERNMENT, which means "to govern", which is an action, not a thing. We are without governance at the moment, but that does not mean that our common public property is or should be closed. The process of closing, and enforcing that closure is an ACTION that is unlawful because it is not "essential" that government employees control or monitor our use of our public property. The federal government is but the steward of our public lands, not the owner or landlord, and at the moment we have put the steward, and it's hired minions, on furlough. We don't want them working. It's illegal for them to work in fact. It is neither legal nor appropriate for them to expend public money that has not been appropriated according to the Constitution to physically close, keep closed, patrol or enforce the closure of public property because doing so is an ACT of stewardship and supervision that we have de-authorized for the moment. And we, the people, through our elected representatives, have decided that we don't need those stewards to work right now. It's up to us, the people, to steward, or not steward our public property as we see fit, without interference from persons unauthorized to wield executive authority and supervision.

Surely in Seth-world all these parks/memorials and whatnot should be forcibly seized by red-blooded, patriotic, entrepreneurial, pioneering types; claimed as private property for the purposes of turning a profit; and defended with assault-rifle against all comers (be they WWII vets or whatever).

Wrong. Any Libertarian community is fully authorized to buy or have donated property for use by the general public without fee, to be held in common. Let's say I own a large urban lot and I wish to donate it to the community as a park. I set conditions on the gift about how the property may be used or disposed of, and the community accepts or does not accept that contractual obligation. Or, the community wants my property for a park, so the members get together VOLUNTARILY to raise money to buy the property from me at whatever price I set on it, in a fully voluntary free-market, willing seller/willing buyer transaction.

Libertarianism does not maintain that everything must be privately owned, it merely says that no group of people can force another person to turn over what is theirs for the use of others without their consent.

If your group wants my land for a park or a highway, but I don't want to sell, you cannot use the Mace of State to force me to sell my land to you.

In short, under Libertarianism, there is no such concept as "eminent domain." All acquisitions by the government must be by the willing and free consent of the owner of the property.

But once acquired for the public, as national parks and the National Mall have been, they become public property and therefore cannot be denied to the public by an administrative decision...unless that decision has been authorized in advance by the people themselves granting such supervisory and regulatory authority over such property to the administration. Which has been done.

But here's the catch: That administrative authority may only be exercised by authorized administrators acting in their official capacity as authorized by the people (through the law). When that administrative authority is revoked, or suspended, as it is right now, no government employee has any authority to act because no government employee is acting in his or her official capacity while on furlough.

If that furlough and inability to steward the people's property endangers that property through uncontrolled unmonitored use or abuse by individuals, it is NOT the duty of the administration to act. It is the duty of THE PEOPLE to act, on their own, to preserve, protect and defend their property from unlawful acts or harm.

In other words, the only people who are authorized to patrol the National Mall against vandalism and the like are private individuals themselves, acting under their supreme authority as citizens to arrest and detain persons who commit crimes in their presence, that does not rely upon any federal bureaucracy for either it's authority or it's activation.

And this, my friends, is precisely what the Unorganized Militia was intended for. To allow the citizenry itself to rise to the defense of their community, their state, their nation, and their property during times when the state and federal government enforcement apparatus is not available or is ineffective.

That's what a "posse" is all about. It's the authority of the local CLEO (sheriff or police chief) to organize volunteer citizens to act in a law enforcement capacity during times when paid employees are not available or are insufficient to the task...like Hurricane Katrina...or a federal government shutdown.

[Seth]

"All the government is to me is a big chunk of my paycheck gone every week. Now these pricks won't even let me stay on my houseboat on Lake Powell!!!"

Quite right. As it happens, Lake Powell is a "navigable water of the United States," just like the ocean is, and the federal government has NO authority whatsoever to prohibit public use and enjoyment of navigable waters, particularly when the employees who could do so have been furloughed and their authority to regulate and enforce temporarily suspended.

[piscator]

"All the government is to me is a big chunk of my paycheck gone every week. Now these pricks won't even let me stay on my houseboat on Lake Powell!!!"

Quite right. As it happens, Lake Powell is a "navigable water of the United States," just like the ocean is, and the federal government has NO authority whatsoever to prohibit public use and enjoyment of navigable waters

Tell that to the Coast Guard.


I quoted that because it was a real quote. The douchebag who said it is apparently unaware that the government killed off the Apaches and built a massive dam to make Lake Powell, which made it profitable for his employer to operate in Phoenix, and hence for him to live there and support his family. His whole way of life was created by the Federal government, but he's whining because he's temporarily inconvenienced and he can't think past the end of his nose. Sad.

[Tyrannical]

More proof of willful criminal activity by Obama

The owner of the "privately run, funded and staffed" Claude Moore Colonial Farm said that "we think they have closed us down illegally..." as reported today by J.D. Tuccille of reason.com. The staff was even "threatened with arrest" if they showed up for work, despite the fact that they are not government employees. The owner said,

Hans Bader of OpenMarket.org compiled many of these distrubing stories today. He reported that sites that were previously open without guards, such as the Lincoln Memorial, now have guards assigned to keep out the public. The Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial is now "fenced off" despite the fact that it was previously open 24/7 without guards. Bader writes,

http://www.examiner.com/article/park-ra ... -as-we-can

Clearly not essential employees, therefor they are illegally showing up to work. Whomever gave that order needs to be reminded of the law.

[JimC]

I wonder if Americans are aware of the absolute incredulity this whole rolling disaster is viewed from the outside. No one gives a shit about the desperate blame game from either of your sides of politics.

The international community is just transfixed by the sight of a superpower apparently controlled by 3 year olds throwing tantrums. Your enemies are laughing and rubbing their hands together with glee, your friends are shaking their heads in despair...

[Seabass]

I wonder if Americans are aware of the absolute incredulity this whole rolling disaster is viewed from the outside. No one gives a shit about the desperate blame game from either of your sides of politics.

The international community is just transfixed by the sight of a superpower apparently controlled by 3 year olds throwing tantrums. Your enemies are laughing and rubbing their hands together with glee, your friends are shaking their heads in despair...

Non-Americans aren't the only ones watching this with incredulity.

[Tyrannical]

I wonder if Americans are aware of the absolute incredulity this whole rolling disaster is viewed from the outside. No one gives a shit about the desperate blame game from either of your sides of politics.

The international community is just transfixed by the sight of a superpower apparently controlled by 3 year olds throwing tantrums. Your enemies are laughing and rubbing their hands together with glee, your friends are shaking their heads in despair...

It probably won't be much longer, Obama seems to be taking a big hit in the polls and has dropped four points in the last three days and is at 41% approval, 52% disapproval. Obama care seems to be a big flop so far, and I've seen some mentions of sticker price shock. The Democrats stubborn refusal to alter Obama care might just backfire on them.

[JimC]

I wonder if Americans are aware of the absolute incredulity this whole rolling disaster is viewed from the outside. No one gives a shit about the desperate blame game from either of your sides of politics.

The international community is just transfixed by the sight of a superpower apparently controlled by 3 year olds throwing tantrums. Your enemies are laughing and rubbing their hands together with glee, your friends are shaking their heads in despair...

It probably won't be much longer, Obama seems to be taking a big hit in the polls and has dropped four points in the last three days and is at 41% approval, 52% disapproval. Obama care seems to be a big flop so far, and I've seen some mentions of sticker price shock. The Democrats stubborn refusal to alter Obama care might just backfire on them.

You have rather missed the point...

[Tyrannical]

I wonder if Americans are aware of the absolute incredulity this whole rolling disaster is viewed from the outside. No one gives a shit about the desperate blame game from either of your sides of politics.

The international community is just transfixed by the sight of a superpower apparently controlled by 3 year olds throwing tantrums. Your enemies are laughing and rubbing their hands together with glee, your friends are shaking their heads in despair...

It probably won't be much longer, Obama seems to be taking a big hit in the polls and has dropped four points in the last three days and is at 41% approval, 52% disapproval. Obama care seems to be a big flop so far, and I've seen some mentions of sticker price shock. The Democrats stubborn refusal to alter Obama care might just backfire on them.

You have rather missed the point...

No not at all, Obama has steadily looked more and more incompetent and dishonest to the rest of the world, and I think the irony of that Nobel prize has sunk in So no surprise that Obama & Friends continued performance makes the US look bad.

Luckily we have a brilliant statesman by the name of Rand Paul calling for compromise

[Audley Strange]

I wonder if Americans are aware of the absolute incredulity this whole rolling disaster is viewed from the outside. No one gives a shit about the desperate blame game from either of your sides of politics.

The international community is just transfixed by the sight of a superpower apparently controlled by 3 year olds throwing tantrums. Your enemies are laughing and rubbing their hands together with glee, your friends are shaking their heads in despair...

I don't think the U.S. as an enemy, but I'm laughing my arse off about all of this. The perfect storm of deluded ideology getting in the way of reality, on both sides.

[Seth]

I wonder if Americans are aware of the absolute incredulity this whole rolling disaster is viewed from the outside. No one gives a shit about the desperate blame game from either of your sides of politics.

Interestingly, neither do most of us. Most people know exactly what's going on and why, and they either support it because they believe in limited government and fundamental fairness or they despise it because they want more largess from the public treasury.

The international community is just transfixed by the sight of a superpower apparently controlled by 3 year olds throwing tantrums. Your enemies are laughing and rubbing their hands together with glee, your friends are shaking their heads in despair...

Well, it's not like the rest of the world doesn't go through the same, or worse, much more often. Just look at Greece and France. We haven't had a single riot yet now have we?

This is a high-stakes political game of brinksmanship that our Founders envisioned and provided for in the Constitution. The system is working exactly as intended. The minute that the democrat party decides to quit being so arrogant and the President submits to the will of the people and negotiates in good faith, the shutdown will be over. But the reason that we CAN shut down the government from the House is precisely to keep one party from steamrollering the other when there is NOT a national mandate to do so. That is WHY the Republicans took back the House...because the democrat party abused its majorities in the House, Senate and White House in passing Obamacare in the first place. The public took offense at that and gave control of the public purse to the Republican controlled house, and they did so for a reason...and a good one: The House can refuse to appropriate money to allow Obamacare to function. That's within its constitutionally mandated powers.

So its the democrat party that's shutting things down and people know that full well, and they will hold them accountable at the mid term elections.

[Seth]

I wonder if Americans are aware of the absolute incredulity this whole rolling disaster is viewed from the outside. No one gives a shit about the desperate blame game from either of your sides of politics.

The international community is just transfixed by the sight of a superpower apparently controlled by 3 year olds throwing tantrums. Your enemies are laughing and rubbing their hands together with glee, your friends are shaking their heads in despair...

It probably won't be much longer, Obama seems to be taking a big hit in the polls and has dropped four points in the last three days and is at 41% approval, 52% disapproval. Obama care seems to be a big flop so far, and I've seen some mentions of sticker price shock. The Democrats stubborn refusal to alter Obama care might just backfire on them.

You have rather missed the point...

No, you have. This is about the long game and the dismal future of Marxist Progressivism that's getting more and more dismal with each passing minute because Obama and the democrat party couldn't restrain themselves from gloating and abusing power when they were given it. So we took it away from them. Now they are suffering the natural and intended punishment.

[piscator]

This is about the long game and the dismal future of Marxist Progressivism that's getting more and more dismal with each passing minute because Obama and the democrat party couldn't restrain themselves from gloating and abusing power when they were given it.

Thanks so much for your testimony of faith, and the fine witnessing of your political religion, which is based on your economic religion, which is founded in your desire for power.
Goldspeed, my son. Take solace in your schadenfreude, and strength in your ennui.

[Warren Dew]

I wonder if Americans are aware of the absolute incredulity this whole rolling disaster is viewed from the outside. No one gives a shit about the desperate blame game from either of your sides of politics.

The international community is just transfixed by the sight of a superpower apparently controlled by 3 year olds throwing tantrums. Your enemies are laughing and rubbing their hands together with glee, your friends are shaking their heads in despair...

It's either that, or rioting in the streets and another continental war. I'll take the blame game.