The case against guns

[MrJonno]

And it still does today, perhaps more so than back then. The threat to the sovereignty of the People and their liberty has never been greater, even during the Cold War. We now have a Marxist in the White House and his minions are working hard to "fundamentally transform" this nation into a Marxist state, and it may become necessary to restore the Constitution to its rightful place over the machinations of Marxists and tyrants one day, so preserving our individual right to keep and bear arms is more essential to our liberty and the safety of the Republic now than it has been at any time since the Revolution itself.

I really do hope the FBI/CIA are monitoring that sort of thing

[Seth]

And it still does today, perhaps more so than back then. The threat to the sovereignty of the People and their liberty has never been greater, even during the Cold War. We now have a Marxist in the White House and his minions are working hard to "fundamentally transform" this nation into a Marxist state, and it may become necessary to restore the Constitution to its rightful place over the machinations of Marxists and tyrants one day, so preserving our individual right to keep and bear arms is more essential to our liberty and the safety of the Republic now than it has been at any time since the Revolution itself.

I really do hope the FBI/CIA are monitoring that sort of thing

Of course they are, it passes through the NSA filters before it leaves the country, as does everything you write when it enters the country. Thing is, nothing I'm saying is in the least bit illegal or even seditious. It's all in perfect conformity with the oath I took to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, which is the same oath every soldier and police officer in the US takes, so I'm in good company.

My bet is the guys at the FBI (the same ones who put the cookie on my other computer in response to some fuckwit in this forum "reporting" me) are looking on with amusement and respect at someone who is willing to participate in the protection of the Constitution and preservation of the Republic, something all of them swore to do as well.

For the FBI, NSA and CIA, I could use a job and I'd be happy to assist with the anti-terror anti-Marxist effort in any way I can. Just get in touch with me, you know how...

It's a GOOD thing to be anti-Marxist in this country you see.

[orpheus]

Why would you think atheism somehow connects to guns? Life is prescious to us, we only get one.

I seriously need to explain this?

What the fuck?

This is not complicated.

Let's call your religion, being anti-gun.

I want no part of your religion.

I am an atheist to your shitty religion of demonizing and fearing firearms.

So...

Stop imposing your fucking asinine and shitty religion on me. I want no part of it.

In this case, I am the atheist, and you are the theist, trying to impose your shit on me.

Well guess what, you can shove it up your ass. I refuse to conform to your garbage anti-gun religion.

Get it yet, or is abstract thought just too much for you?

You seem kind of angry. You might want to have a nice lie down for a while.

[orpheus]

Problem: Gun violence.
Solution: More guns.
Ayup, that must be it.

Yes, it is, however counterintuitive it might seem to the ignorami.

The actual problem is, and has always been too many guns in the hands of criminals and NOT ENOUGH guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens, which skews the calculus of power strongly in favor of armed criminals.

Since it is functionally and factually impossible to effectively prevent criminals from obtaining firearms, the only possible solution to rebalancing that equation to tilt the balance in favor of the law-abiding is to allow the law-abiding to arm themselves as they deem reasonable and necessary so that they can effectively defend themselves against criminal attack.

It's amazing to me how putatively intelligent and "rational" Atheists and liberals simply cannot understand this simple fact.

"law-abiding citizens" vs. "criminals". Good guys vs. Bad guys. Nice folks vs. Meanies. Nice that it's such a simple world.

[Tero]

How is it impossible to keep guns from criminals? I'll require all guns to be registered. Nobody with a criminal record or record of violence gets a permit. Possession of a gun without permit: 10 years jail, no jury.

They will then need to bury their guns and dig them out for "action."

It will take 50 years, but will reduce guns in circulation.

Selling or giving gun to nonpermit holder: 10 years in jail.

[Seth]

How is it impossible to keep guns from criminals?

Because it is. Criminals don't obey laws prohibiting them from having guns. This has been true since firearms were invented, just as it's impossible to keep criminals from having knives, or swords, or clubs, or rocks.

I'll require all guns to be registered.

And who exactly will obey this law and register their guns? Law-abiding citizens who, well...obey the law. Criminals will not register their guns. Congress passed a law requiring everyone (criminals included) to register their handguns that made it a crime not to do so. That law was struck down as unconstitutional because it required criminals to incriminate themselves. Besides, it's already illegal for a criminal to possess ANY firearm for the purposes of committing a crime. Always has been. Doesn't seem to prevent them from getting, possessing and using firearms, does it.

Nope.

All such registration schemes do is to infringe on the rights of law-abiding citizens trying to exercise their constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

Nobody with a criminal record or record of violence gets a permit.

It's already illegal for any person with a felony record, or a record of misdemeanor domestic violence to possess a firearm. The penalty is supposed to be a mandatory five years in federal prison.

Possession of a gun without permit: 10 years jail, no jury.

And you think that criminals who face life in prison for killing someone are going to be deterred by this?

They will then need to bury their guns and dig them out for "action."

They don't seem to find it necessary to do so at the moment. Why would that change?

It will take 50 years, but will reduce guns in circulation.

You are aware that less than 1/100th of one percent of all firearms in circulation are ever used to commit any sort of crime, right?

Selling or giving gun to nonpermit holder: 10 years in jail.

Adding five years won't change anything except to clog up the prisons even more, not that the feds prosecute every firearms violation they could right now because they don't have enough beds. They usually either ignore the violations and defer to the states or they plea-bargain it down to a non-incarceration offense.

You're pretty naive when it comes to gun policy. Everything you think will work has been tried already and doesn't work.

What actually works is for law-abiding citizens to arm themselves and resist criminals who try to victimize them. They are less frequently victimized and they are less seriously injured when they are, according to the feds.

[Collector1337]

Problem: Gun violence.
Solution: More guns.
Ayup, that must be it.

Why is it that anti-gun nuts only complain and see the problem as "gun violence" and not just all violence in general?

It's like as long as there is no "gun violence" they're perfectly happy, and don't give a shit when then all other violence goes up.

I'd much rather have more "gun violence" but less overall crime, then have less "gun violence" but more overall crime.

[Collector1337]

How is it impossible to keep guns from criminals? I'll require all guns to be registered. Nobody with a criminal record or record of violence gets a permit. Possession of a gun without permit: 10 years jail, no jury.

They will then need to bury their guns and dig them out for "action."

It will take 50 years, but will reduce guns in circulation.

Selling or giving gun to nonpermit holder: 10 years in jail.

Good luck with that. It'll never happen in America.

I'll never register my guns. Ever.

In fact, what guns are you referring to? I have no guns.

[Hermit]

Problem: Gun violence.
Solution: More guns.
Ayup, that must be it.

Why is it that anti-gun nuts only complain and see the problem as "gun violence" and not just all violence in general?

It's like as long as there is no "gun violence" they're perfectly happy, and don't give a shit when then all other violence goes up.

I'd much rather have more "gun violence" but less overall crime, then have less "gun violence" but more overall crime.

1. I challenge you to find a single utterance by me in support of prohibiting the ownership of guns.

2. I have consistently pointed out that - in Australia at least - trends in violent crimes (as well as nonviolent ones, come to think of it) are not in lockstep with the rate of ownership of guns. If you care to think of it, that fact gives comfort to neither the pro-gun lobby, nor the anti-gun lobby.

One thing that is worth noting in regard to the availability of firearms relates to handgun homicides: Between 2007 and 2011 there were between 6115 and 7398 of them in the USA each year and between 3 and 9 in Australia, which works out to a range of 1.98 - 2.46 and 0.01 - 0.03 respectively per 100,000 people.

[rainbow]

How is it impossible to keep guns from criminals? I'll require all guns to be registered. Nobody with a criminal record or record of violence gets a permit. Possession of a gun without permit: 10 years jail, no jury.

They will then need to bury their guns and dig them out for "action."

It will take 50 years, but will reduce guns in circulation.

Selling or giving gun to nonpermit holder: 10 years in jail.

Good luck with that. It'll never happen in America.

Where do I remember hearing that before?



Was it when they were talking about a black person becoming President?

"It'll never happen in America."

[JimC]

Collector1337 wrote:

...In fact, what guns are you referring to? I have no guns....

That's like me saying:

"Gin? I have no gin..."

[Clinton Huxley]

Signal? I see no signal!

[klr]

Computers? I have no computers.

[JimC]

Bella:

"Recipes? I have no recipes..."

Cali:

"Arthropod photos? I have no Arthropod photos..."

XC:

"Beers? I have no favourite beers..."

[rainbow]

Bella:

"Recipes? I have no recipes..."

Cali:

"Arthropod photos? I have no Arthropod photos..."

XC:

"Beers? I have no favourite beers..."