Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire economy

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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Coito ergo sum » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:46 pm

MrJonno wrote:Silly system where one bit of the government even has the ability to screw over another bit
Not, actually. Your Parliament has the ability to screw over your entire government, since your Parliament makes the rules. That's what our Congress is, the equivalent, more or less, of your Parliament. So, naturally, they could do things, like, oh, eliminate every federal agency, defund, or fail to fund any government program, etc., and that is no different whatsoever than a Parliamentary system. Such a thing is inherent in any representative democracy or republic.

But, as usual, Merka iz stupidz. Got it, yet again.

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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Audley Strange » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:47 pm

Seth wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:This thread exemplifies why our current system is not fit for purpose. No one willing to accept that both sides are filled with and supported bunch of fucking pricks who care about democracy as much as I care about the economic system of the Fairy Folk.

Apes waggling their dicks and calling it "reason".

Comedy gold.
Er, this ain't a democracy Skippy. Never was. Hopefully never will be.
Yes Flipper, I'm not talking about Rationalia but the democratic political system, i.e letting any twat with an opinion vote. Yes Yes I'm aware you're a republic blah blah, the point stands.
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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:49 pm

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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Coito ergo sum » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:53 pm

"Fleas can be taught nearly anything that a Congressman can." –Mark Twain


"All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity." –Mark Twain

"Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." –Mark Twain

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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Seth » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:55 pm

Audley Strange wrote:
Seth wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:This thread exemplifies why our current system is not fit for purpose. No one willing to accept that both sides are filled with and supported bunch of fucking pricks who care about democracy as much as I care about the economic system of the Fairy Folk.

Apes waggling their dicks and calling it "reason".

Comedy gold.
Er, this ain't a democracy Skippy. Never was. Hopefully never will be.
Yes Flipper, I'm not talking about Rationalia but the democratic political system, i.e letting any twat with an opinion vote. Yes Yes I'm aware you're a republic blah blah, the point stands.
No it doesn't. Any twat with an opinion can vote, but that doesn't mean his vote is going to count for anything. That's the difference between a democratic political system and a constitutional republic that uses some democratic processes.
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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Coito ergo sum » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:57 pm

Audley Strange wrote:
Seth wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:This thread exemplifies why our current system is not fit for purpose. No one willing to accept that both sides are filled with and supported bunch of fucking pricks who care about democracy as much as I care about the economic system of the Fairy Folk.

Apes waggling their dicks and calling it "reason".

Comedy gold.
Er, this ain't a democracy Skippy. Never was. Hopefully never will be.
Yes Flipper, I'm not talking about Rationalia but the democratic political system, i.e letting any twat with an opinion vote. Yes Yes I'm aware you're a republic blah blah, the point stands.
In common parlance and in modern English usage, the US is a democracy AND a republic. The UK is a democracy, but not a republic. I disagree with Seth on this rather pedantic point. Sure, we're not a "pure" democracy, where the electorate votes on everything, but nothing ever was that. A democracy is, according to most dictionaries, a form of government in which people elect leaders through voting. We do that. Most of Europe does that. A republic is almost the same, because a republic is a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

So, the US is a democracy and a republic.

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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Audley Strange » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:39 pm

Yeah I know CES.
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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Coito ergo sum » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:42 pm

Audley Strange wrote:Yeah I know CES.
...just siding with you on that issue.

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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Seth » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:47 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:
Seth wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:This thread exemplifies why our current system is not fit for purpose. No one willing to accept that both sides are filled with and supported bunch of fucking pricks who care about democracy as much as I care about the economic system of the Fairy Folk.

Apes waggling their dicks and calling it "reason".

Comedy gold.
Er, this ain't a democracy Skippy. Never was. Hopefully never will be.
Yes Flipper, I'm not talking about Rationalia but the democratic political system, i.e letting any twat with an opinion vote. Yes Yes I'm aware you're a republic blah blah, the point stands.
In common parlance and in modern English usage, the US is a democracy AND a republic. The UK is a democracy, but not a republic. I disagree with Seth on this rather pedantic point. Sure, we're not a "pure" democracy, where the electorate votes on everything, but nothing ever was that. A democracy is, according to most dictionaries, a form of government in which people elect leaders through voting. We do that. Most of Europe does that. A republic is almost the same, because a republic is a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

So, the US is a democracy and a republic.
The point is that what you say the "common parlance" is and what it actually is are two different things. Those who spout "democracy" at every turn don't mean or support a republic bound and guided by a constitution which limits both the power and scope of the government, but also restricts the "democratic" decisions of the collective. "Democrats" today are people who want things their way, and only their way, and are unwilling to acknowledge, recognize or respect the rights of others when and where those rights conflict with the "democratic" party line.

Therefore, to say that "democracy" is a good thing is to say that the tyranny of the majority is a good thing, which it's not.
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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Svartalf » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:55 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:"Fleas can be taught nearly anything that a Congressman can." –Mark Twain


"All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity." –Mark Twain

"Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." –Mark Twain
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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Coito ergo sum » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:02 pm

Seth wrote:
The point is that what you say the "common parlance" is and what it actually is are two different things. Those who spout "democracy" at every turn don't mean or support a republic bound and guided by a constitution which limits both the power and scope of the government, but also restricts the "democratic" decisions of the collective. "Democrats" today are people who want things their way, and only their way, and are unwilling to acknowledge, recognize or respect the rights of others when and where those rights conflict with the "democratic" party line.

Therefore, to say that "democracy" is a good thing is to say that the tyranny of the majority is a good thing, which it's not.

It means what it means in modern English usage. That's what the words mean.

What you're actually saying is that what it means, and what it may have meant in some other place and time are two different things. Yes, indeed, the meanings of words change and evolve over time. Today, democracy means what I wrote. Look it up in any of the major dictionaries.

Some people do, when they spout "democracy", mean and support a republic bound and guided by a constitution. Others don't. The words democracy and republic cover a broad array of forms of government, and before one knows what another person is spouting about, one needs to ask them what they mean.

There are some people who think that there should be no individual rights, and that the majority, even in areas of religion and speech and whatnot, ought to win the day in every case. But, that's not many people. Most people, when they say they like democracy also like the idea that the majority can't vote about who they have consensual sex with, and what political beliefs they hold and express, etc.

We, the US, is not a "pure" democracy in the sense of a democracy where the people directly vote on all issues, and the majority rules come what may. But, then again, such a society has never existed in the history of mankind, and to be a "democracy" a government need not be that. A representative republic is, in fact, a democracy under modern English usage.

And, I'll add that for the last 200+ years the English usage has been much the same -- here, a quick google revealed this dictionary from 1828 -- http://books.google.com/books?id=z3kKAA ... &q&f=false - look up democracy. All it says is that the sovereign power lodged in the collective body of the people.

Here is Samuel Johnson's diction from the late 1700s - http://books.google.com/books?id=bXsCAA ... &q&f=false - it says that "democracy" is one of the three forms of government, that in which the sovereign power is lodged in the body of the people. The "three forms of government" referred to there were "autocracy", "oligopoly" and "democracy." So, before and after the founding of the US, English usage was that the United States was, in fact, a "democracy."

:prof:

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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Coito ergo sum » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:02 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:"Fleas can be taught
nearly
[/b]anything that a Congressman can." –Mark Twain


"All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity." –Mark Twain

"Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." –Mark Twain

I've never seen fleas take graft or get caught in a sex scandal.

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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Azathoth » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:16 pm

Seth wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:This thread exemplifies why our current system is not fit for purpose. No one willing to accept that both sides are filled with and supported bunch of fucking pricks who care about democracy as much as I care about the economic system of the Fairy Folk.

Apes waggling their dicks and calling it "reason".

Comedy gold.
Er, this ain't a democracy Skippy. Never was. Hopefully never will be.

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   $str = str_replace(array("\{","\}")," ",$str);

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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by Tero » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:16 pm

Your quote failed a bit. Thanks for the Twain.

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Re: Obama slams Republicans for threat to blow up entire eco

Post by klr » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:31 pm

Who's at home, and who's still working:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24302508
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