America's Cup - Louis Vitton round 42 knots!!!!!

[Blind groper]

Congratulations to Oracle for a great comeback.

However, as a New Zealander, I would like to make a couple of points.

1. While on match point, with Team NZ racing for the final win, there were three separate races in which the NZ boat was clear leader and a certainty to win the race. The American race officials in all those three races called off the race, using assorted rules. This might be seen to be simply people doing their duty, except for the fact that, in the entire series, there was not a single time when Oracle was leading and the race called off. Makes me suspicious.....

2. The final win was an example of the simple fact that money talks. Oracle was financed by Larry Ellison, who is the world's 5th richest man. He refuses to say how much money he put into the effort, but it must have been hundreds of millions of dollars. We know that NZers were strongly in the Oracle effort, and when he needed extra boat speed, literally dozens of our top boat designers were called to San Fran to earn big money for Ellison. The effort paid off for Oracle, making it the faster boat, but it must have cost Ellison $$$$$$$.

The race rules say that the hulls must be built in the country of the syndicate. So Oracle's hulls were built in the USA. But everything else can be built anywhere else in the world, and it is kind of ironic that most of the Oracle catamaran was built in NZ.

The Oracle boat and crew were more NZ than American.

The big loser in all of this is the Americas Cup itself. The contest has been getting more and more expensive to enter, and Ellison with his massive financial resources will be working to increase that trend. This contest, there were only 3 challengers, because of the enormous cost. Next time, how few?

The Team NZ group had stated that, if tey won, the next contest would be modified to make it cheaper to enter, and therefore encourage a much greater participation. That will not now happen.

[Warren Dew]

On the BBC News, you would think the cup was won single-handed by Ben Ainsley.
It's pathetic how they big-up anything with the most tenuous like to Britain. Can't they just appreciate a spectacular effort by an American team, with sailors sourced from around the world?

It's debatable how much effect Ainsley's input had anyway. It looks to me like they found a way to make the boat go faster. That's always the best tactic.

I think the number of tactical errors was lower under Ainsley. It might not have mattered had the boat and crewing been strong from the start, but the Oracle team needed every advantage to come back from 1-8.

[Warren Dew]

Congratulations to Oracle for a great comeback.

However, as a New Zealander, I would like to make a couple of points.

There were a ton of good New Zealand sailors on both teams?

1. While on match point, with Team NZ racing for the final win, there were three separate races in which the NZ boat was clear leader and a certainty to win the race. The American race officials in all those three races called off the race, using assorted rules. This might be seen to be simply people doing their duty, except for the fact that, in the entire series, there was not a single time when Oracle was leading and the race called off. Makes me suspicious.....

The officials also hit Oracle with an unexpectedly heavy penalty just days before the start of the race, which cost them two races directly and crippled their team by removing the #3 person on the boat, so I don't think you can argue bias. I think which races were called off was a matter of luck, plus perhaps Oracle focusing on the middle wind speeds rather than the high and low wind speeds that could get races called off. Also, I would note that in one of the races where New Zealand was leading when it was called off, New Zealand had been leading by the same amount at the same point in the previous Oracle win. I certainly agree that New Zealand had an insurmountable lead in the race that was ended due to time limits, though Oracle did use tactics early in the race to make the race go longer and increase the chance it wouldn't finish, a legitimate tactic for a boat known to be slower in light wind.

2. The final win was an example of the simple fact that money talks. Oracle was financed by Larry Ellison, who is the world's 5th richest man. He refuses to say how much money he put into the effort, but it must have been hundreds of millions of dollars. We know that NZers were strongly in the Oracle effort, and when he needed extra boat speed, literally dozens of our top boat designers were called to San Fran to earn big money for Ellison. The effort paid off for Oracle, making it the faster boat, but it must have cost Ellison $$$$$$$.

True. The America's cup has always been a very expensive proposition.

The race rules say that the hulls must be built in the country of the syndicate. So Oracle's hulls were built in the USA. But everything else can be built anywhere else in the world, and it is kind of ironic that most of the Oracle catamaran was built in NZ.

My understanding is that the New Zealand boat was designed in America, though.

The Oracle boat and crew were more NZ than American.

The boat crew, yes. New Zealand certainly produces a lot of good sailors. I think a much larger proportion of the Oracle shore crew were American, though, and they probably played as big a part in the victory.

However, ultimately I would agree that the winning team was much more of an Oracle team than a particularly U.S. team.

The big loser in all of this is the Americas Cup itself. The contest has been getting more and more expensive to enter, and Ellison with his massive financial resources will be working to increase that trend. This contest, there were only 3 challengers, because of the enormous cost. Next time, how few?

Traditionally, the America's cup has been a one on one contest. The Louis Vuitton cup to decide a challenger is something of a sideshow, so I don't see the fact that it didn't have a lot of entrants as a big deal. There are other sailing events designed to attract more competitors; I like the fact that the America's cup remains an event for the very best possible boats and crews, with money as no object.

[macdoc]

I'd like to see a mono-hull open ocean race interleaved with the America's Cup open race like we just saw.

The new tech for making it exciting to view I think would support the dual races. Call the mono-hull the Antipodes Cup.

I actually found the Louis Vitton Cup a couple of years back incredibly exciting - hey 55 races to determine a challenger.

[mistermack]

I would like to see a specification that the boat must be crewed by one person only.

You could have a propeller in the water, providing the hydraulic power, instead of all of those people rushing around.
It spoils it as a spectacle, for me, because it's too far removed from the real world.

You could have a battery to provide the initial power at the start, and then rely on power from the propeller for the rest of the race, instead of those sailors winding winches. It might be a bit slower, but it's not the speed that makes it exciting, it's the racing.

[Blind groper]

What I would like to see is the money element removed, throwing the race back on skill.

This could be done by having each challenger buy two boats, and pay a maintenence fee. All the boats are made in a factory, and all identical. They are numbered, and issued for training and for racing using a random number system. The size and type of yacht become relatively less important, if all are identical.

In the final racing, the teams face off against each other in identical boats, and crew skill becomes the decider. The cost of entering the cup also drops dramatically, permitting a larger number of yachting nations to compete.

Just as an example to illustrate. In the race just completed, the hydrofoils alone, made of carbon fibre, cost around $US 100,000 each, and there were four per boat, and they were all changed with upgrades throughout the racing. The costs are unbelievable, and prevent many possible competitors from entering.

[piscator]

I'd like to see a mono-hull open ocean race interleaved with the America's Cup open race like we just saw.

The new tech for making it exciting to view I think would support the dual races. Call the mono-hull the Antipodes Cup.

I actually found the Louis Vitton Cup a couple of years back incredibly exciting - hey 55 races to determine a challenger.

Well, there's the Volvo Ocean Race. 39,000 miles around the world, driving 70' monohulls through the Southern Ocean absolutely as hard as they can go:



And if that's not enough for you, there's the Vendee Globe, where they race nonstop around the earth single handedly:

[Blind groper]

The round the world races are wonderful, of course.

However, there is still a place for the Americas Cup. I think the latest format, with hydrofoil catamarans racing at insane speeds is the most exciting we have seen, and is very good television.

I would like to see all boats identical, though, so that skill is the decider, not simply who has the most money to spend on technology.

[macdoc]

I think leaving a "design window" open is important.
I think the 45s were all identical but the 72s had some flex - that way a bit of tech could perhaps overcome a weaker team. .....as it apparently did.
And moved the design window forward.

•••

The big open ocean races tho are not spectator sports the way the America's cup is on a set course. I'd still like to see a mono-hull race on a unsheltered bit of water.

[MiM]

The Americas Cup has always had a role of "pushing design". Without that element Americas Cup just wouldn't be Americas Cup. There are other races for monotype racing, and where the boats are randomly provided, like groper suggests.

[Warren Dew]

Australian yacht club named challenger of record for the next cup:

http://www.americascup.com/en/news/3/ne ... -of-record

[JimC]

Australian yacht club named challenger of record for the next cup:

http://www.americascup.com/en/news/3/ne ... -of-record

The owners of that yacht club became extremely wealthy only by oppressing rEvolutionist and stealing the very sweat from his brow!

[Warren Dew]

Australian yacht club named challenger of record for the next cup:

http://www.americascup.com/en/news/3/ne ... -of-record

The owners of that yacht club became extremely wealthy only by oppressing rEvolutionist and stealing the very sweat from his brow!

At least the money will be used in a good cause!