Attenborough Says Starve 'Em Down?

[Svartalf]

Total mismanagement of resources by moronic and/or corrupt elite... only solution is to remove elite and replace it by competent and reasonably honest people.
Only way I see to achieve that is for us Northerners to invade and recolonize.

[cronus]

Africa needs a hard-line atheist ideology that is enticing and capable of removing the demons of primitivism and replacing them with a vision of modernity. I don't buy into Africa being comprised of nation states since most of these are artificial colonial artifacts that take no account of true genetic lineages of the inhabitants as would have happened had they evolved from within. What Africa needs is a dose of stiff communism followed by mixed communism/capitalism and then some capitalism. This will lead to pogroms against all religious factions driving them into the shadows where they'll get eaten by lions. It'll lead to to highly inefficient but huge strides forwards with regards industry as was seen in Russia and China - recall Russia was a peasant society before its dose of communism. Human rights and old idealogical battles and so forth can be discussed after the lights are on throughout Africa.

[rainbow]

Total mismanagement of resources by moronic and/or corrupt elite... only solution is to remove elite and replace it by competent and reasonably honest people.
Only way I see to achieve that is for us Northerners to invade and recolonize.

You sort out Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal - and leave us to solve our problems.
All Africa needs is free and fair trade.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

There is certainly a valid argument to be made that human population could significantly increase perfectly comfortably with appropriate use of technology. Unfortunately it can't really be made until we have the political will to make sure resources are used sustainably and distributed effectively throughout the world.

One person's idea of 'comfortable' may not be the same as another's...

[Tyrannical]

Does anyone disagree with Tyr's analysis of Zimbabwe?

Not me. That's pretty much as it was reported by the news outlets here.

Except that Tyr's analysis was basically that the outcome in Zimbabwe was due to sub-human intelligence of black people, where the real reasons involved involved nasty political machinations by a populist despot.

But it wasn't the deposit that did the active destruction. You can say they created the conditions and allowed it to happen, but Mugabe only wanted to steal. The actual destruction of the farms was done by average members of the population.

2007, but still relevant I think.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/o ... rismcgreal

The agriculture minister, Rugare Gumbo, has blamed the food shortages on black farmers who have taken over formerly white-owned land.

"I am painfully aware of the widespread theft of stock, farm produce, irrigation equipment and the general vandalism of infrastructure by our new farmers," he said.

"I am disappointed that our new farmers have proved to be failures since the start of the land reform programme in 2000. In spite of all the support government has been pouring into the agricultural sector, productivity and under-utilisation of land remain issues of concern."

General vandalism as if they felt the need to destroy the means to feed themselves Certainly shows a lack of forethought.....

[Cormac]

There is certainly a valid argument to be made that human population could significantly increase perfectly comfortably with appropriate use of technology. Unfortunately it can't really be made until we have the political will to make sure resources are used sustainably and distributed effectively throughout the world.

I read something a while back (I forget where) about a study into farming practices in Africa. The gist was that even very small improvements in technique would likely increase food production by a huge amount.

It's true that very poor farming practices curtail African food production. Very little of the land is even irrigated. But the problem with Africa is like leading a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Rhodesia was once called the bread basket of Africa with it's modern Westernized farms, but once Black rule took over the farms were raided and destroyed. Irrigation pipes were dug up for scrap metal, milk and egg production stopped because they ate the cows and chickens. White farmers were chased out and their farms given to Blacks who simply were unable or willing to farm.

Africa has only one potential hope, and that is repatriating Western educated Blacks back to Africa. Especially the most skilled or educated amongst them. Africa needs to be fixed from within, with people familiar with Western advances to live in and integrate into their society. This is not possible unless they are also Black because visiting White or Asian aid workers have already failed at this.
Now it's easy to think that Tyrannical just wants to kick 40M Blacks out of the US, but you can't argue with how much of a positive effect that would have for Black Africa. It could be the jump start they need to reach the 21st century.

Your ideas are so moronic it nearly defies belief.

Your notions about Africa are idiotic.

Your appalling suggestions about deportation are disgusting.

It is a sad thing for someone who seems to have a brain to be so badly deluded about what it is to be a human being.

[klr]

Tell you what Tyrannical ... why don't we just de-populate the countries with the highest per capita use of resources?

[Azathoth]

Africans can't farm properly because they are all too busy hiding money in tar blocks and sending emails.

[Skepticus]

Oh, sorry. Wrong smiley. This is what I meant to post.

What's doing a favor for the invisible man got to do with anything?

[Skepticus]

As spotted in a graphic on the internet the other day, it took 200,000 years (give or take) for the human population to reach 1 billion, and that happened around 1800CE. It's taken just 200 years to add another 6 billion to that. We definitely need more people.

Yup! Nobody seems to be able to solve this population crisis. We should increas the population by at least ten times. Surely there would have to be be sombody amongst that lot, who can figure out the solution.

There is this one guy though...

[Audley Strange]

Oh what utter bollocks. You're talking as if Africa lacks educated people. They don't all still live in mud huts, you know?

It's not so much a question of educated knowledge as it is culture when I mention Western educated Blacks. It's true there does exist an educated class in Black Africa. and not all of them live in stone age poverty. But African prosperity follows a feudalistic form of government where the ruler and his extended family group live large while the rest trickles down. What does Mandela, Mugabe,and Zuma have in common? All of their extended families became incredibly rich mysteriously once their patriarch took power. Westernized Blacks without those tribal ties could do what no Black African could.

How's that any different from the Bushes, the Kennedys and the Rockerfellers? Change "blacks" to "yanks" and the same seems to apply.

[cronus]

Wealth follows Benford's law. Irrelevant. Corruption is endemic in Africa.

[Tyrannical]

Your ideas are so moronic it nearly defies belief.

Your notions about Africa are idiotic.

Your appalling suggestions about deportation are disgusting.

It is a sad thing for someone who seems to have a brain to be so badly deluded about what it is to be a human being.

Well Cormac, hypothetically speaking what do you think the effect would be if a large groups of Western educated blacks voluntary emigrated to Africa?
Would it help, hurt, or not make much difference?

[Warren Dew]

Does anyone disagree with Tyr's analysis of Zimbabwe?

I disagree somewhat. Part of the problem was indeed loss of expertise in how to manage the farms, but the average western educated black - or the average western educated white, for that matter - doesn't know how to manage a farm either. That's not what western education typically consists of. A big influx of yuppies would not really help Zimbabwe's farming sector much.

In addition, the previously effective farming system depended on relatively stable rule of law under the Rhodesian government. With a corrupt and shortsighted Zimbabwean government, it would be extremely difficult to reinstate a strong farm sector, even with the appropriate expertise.

[Warren Dew]

Total mismanagement of resources by moronic and/or corrupt elite... only solution is to remove elite and replace it by competent and reasonably honest people.
Only way I see to achieve that is for us Northerners to invade and recolonize.

You sort out Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal - and leave us to solve our problems.
All Africa needs is free and fair trade.

And, as David Attenborough suggests, no handouts so as to avoid competition with African producers.