Attenborough Says Starve 'Em Down?

[rainbow]

There is certainly a valid argument to be made that human population could significantly increase perfectly comfortably with appropriate use of technology. Unfortunately it can't really be made until we have the political will to make sure resources are used sustainably and distributed effectively throughout the world.

I read something a while back (I forget where) about a study into farming practices in Africa. The gist was that even very small improvements in technique would likely increase food production by a huge amount.

It's true that very poor farming practices curtail African food production. Very little of the land is even irrigated. But the problem with Africa is like leading a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Rhodesia was once called the bread basket of Africa with it's modern Westernized farms, but once Black rule took over the farms were raided and destroyed. Irrigation pipes were dug up for scrap metal, milk and egg production stopped because they ate the cows and chickens. White farmers were chased out and their farms given to Blacks who simply were unable or willing to farm.

Africa has only one potential hope, and that is repatriating Western educated Blacks back to Africa. Especially the most skilled or educated amongst them. Africa needs to be fixed from within, with people familiar with Western advances to live in and integrate into their society. This is not possible unless they are also Black because visiting White or Asian aid workers have already failed at this.
Now it's easy to think that Tyrannical just wants to kick 40M Blacks out of the US, but you can't argue with how much of a positive effect that would have for Black Africa. It could be the jump start they need to reach the 21st century.

You know nothing about Africa, or Africans.

How about you talk about what you know about, like public masturbation?

[Tyrannical]

Well enlighten me then Rainbow, what is your solution for this upcoming African problem?

Perhaps you think the problem will just work its self out, with a decline in fertility and increase in food production as modern techniques are adopted? It's certainly a possible scenario as Africa could feed vast amounts of people with better farming techniques. China has 1.2 Billion people and can feed it self, and Sub-Saharan Africa has more potential arable land than China.

[Pappa]

There is certainly a valid argument to be made that human population could significantly increase perfectly comfortably with appropriate use of technology. Unfortunately it can't really be made until we have the political will to make sure resources are used sustainably and distributed effectively throughout the world.

I read something a while back (I forget where) about a study into farming practices in Africa. The gist was that even very small improvements in technique would likely increase food production by a huge amount.

It's true that very poor farming practices curtail African food production. Very little of the land is even irrigated. But the problem with Africa is like leading a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Rhodesia was once called the bread basket of Africa with it's modern Westernized farms, but once Black rule took over the farms were raided and destroyed. Irrigation pipes were dug up for scrap metal, milk and egg production stopped because they ate the cows and chickens. White farmers were chased out and their farms given to Blacks who simply were unable or willing to farm.

Africa has only one potential hope, and that is repatriating Western educated Blacks back to Africa. Especially the most skilled or educated amongst them. Africa needs to be fixed from within, with people familiar with Western advances to live in and integrate into their society. This is not possible unless they are also Black because visiting White or Asian aid workers have already failed at this.
Now it's easy to think that Tyrannical just wants to kick 40M Blacks out of the US, but you can't argue with how much of a positive effect that would have for Black Africa. It could be the jump start they need to reach the 21st century.

Oh what utter bollocks. You're talking as if Africa lacks educated people. They don't all still live in mud huts, you know?

[Tyrannical]

Oh what utter bollocks. You're talking as if Africa lacks educated people. They don't all still live in mud huts, you know?

It's not so much a question of educated knowledge as it is culture when I mention Western educated Blacks. It's true there does exist an educated class in Black Africa. and not all of them live in stone age poverty. But African prosperity follows a feudalistic form of government where the ruler and his extended family group live large while the rest trickles down. What does Mandela, Mugabe,and Zuma have in common? All of their extended families became incredibly rich mysteriously once their patriarch took power. Westernized Blacks without those tribal ties could do what no Black African could.

[cronus]

Oh what utter bollocks. You're talking as if Africa lacks educated people. They don't all still live in mud huts, you know?

It's not so much a question of educated knowledge as it is culture when I mention Western educated Blacks. It's true there does exist an educated class in Black Africa. and not all of them live in stone age poverty. But African prosperity follows a feudalistic form of government where the ruler and his extended family group live large while the rest trickles down. What does Mandela, Mugabe,and Zuma have in common? All of their extended families became incredibly rich mysteriously once their patriarch took power. Westernized Blacks without those tribal ties could do what no Black African could.

You may be right. The reality is each generation needs new blood. Without operation paperclip and the help of the Germans after WW2 the US would have sank into oblivion far sooner.

[Svartalf]

Yeh, Attenborough is just stating the bleeding obvious. But as he says, nobody else seems to be pointing it out.

Food aid IS self defeating. Education aid would have more point. But supplying birth control aid and education would be most relevant. Or provide legal funds to sue the catholic church, to force them to support all the extra children that they've created.

Next question is how to reverse the desertification in the Sahel and similar regions where famine comes from overexploitation and overgrazing that turns a formerly reasonably fertile area into a barren wasteland... and if we can't reverse that, where do we put the locals so they can feed themselves?

[charlou]

Yeh, Attenborough is just stating the bleeding obvious. But as he says, nobody else seems to be pointing it out.

Food aid IS self defeating. Education aid would have more point. But supplying birth control aid and education would be most relevant. Or provide legal funds to sue the catholic church, to force them to support all the extra children that they've created.

Next question is how to reverse the desertification in the Sahel and similar regions where famine comes from overexploitation and overgrazing that turns a formerly reasonably fertile area into a barren wasteland... and if we can't reverse that, where do we put the locals so they can feed themselves?

In the too hard basket.

[laklak]

Does anyone disagree with Tyr's analysis of Zimbabwe?

[mistermack]

Yeh, Attenborough is just stating the bleeding obvious. But as he says, nobody else seems to be pointing it out.

Food aid IS self defeating. Education aid would have more point. But supplying birth control aid and education would be most relevant. Or provide legal funds to sue the catholic church, to force them to support all the extra children that they've created.

Next question is how to reverse the desertification in the Sahel and similar regions where famine comes from overexploitation and overgrazing that turns a formerly reasonably fertile area into a barren wasteland... and if we can't reverse that, where do we put the locals so they can feed themselves?

Well, overgrazing and overexploitation stems from too-fast population growth. So the answer is always the same.
Start with free family planning products for all, and a family planning education program.
Until you've done that successfully, you are just pissing in the wind. I wouldn't spend a penny on anything else, till everyone had full access to the products and the education.

I would also outlaw preaching against contraception. With massive fines on the churches if they persevered.
I would do that everywhere, not just poor countries.

[Pappa]

Does anyone disagree with Tyr's analysis of Zimbabwe?

Not me. That's pretty much as it was reported by the news outlets here.

[Svartalf]

Thanxalot Mugabe, from breadbasket to famine land, all thanx to you.

[jaydot]

Necessity is the mother of invention. We'll do nothing until it's necessary.

as ever, succinct, apposite, probably correct.

[JimC]

Does anyone disagree with Tyr's analysis of Zimbabwe?

Not me. That's pretty much as it was reported by the news outlets here.

Except that Tyr's analysis was basically that the outcome in Zimbabwe was due to sub-human intelligence of black people, where the real reasons involved involved nasty political machinations by a populist despot.

[rainbow]

Does anyone disagree with Tyr's analysis of Zimbabwe?

Zimbabwe isn't Africa. It is a country in Africa.
Talking about Zimbabwe as being typical of Africa is the same as thinking that Nicaragua is a typical North American country, or that Moldova is a typical European country.

Please take some time to learn your geography and history.

[rainbow]

Well enlighten me then Rainbow, what is your solution for this upcoming African problem?

First tell me what this "African problem" is. Africa has many different problems and they vary from region to region.
Different countries, you see.
Is this concept too difficult for you to grasp?