What is feminism? PZ rape thread derail

[pErvinalia]

You're very oppressed, Dave.

There, you feel better now?

[DaveDodo007]

You're very oppressed, Dave.

There, you feel better now?

Way to miss the point of my post.

[Audley Strange]

The Guardian is just the Daily Mail for the pseudo-intellectual left Dave. Chill.

[pErvinalia]

You're very oppressed, Dave.

There, you feel better now?

Way to miss the point of my post.

I barely read it..

But you (and other femo haters) seem to be always going on about how it's hard to be teh man too. It looked like that was what you were going on about again. I apologise if you weren't.

[Hermit]

Rail against the derail!

[Bella Fortuna]

Rail against the derail!

Or wail!

[Mysturji]

FAIL

[Svartalf]

Sail for the sunset

[Coito ergo sum]

Well, I'm all for feminism in terms of equal treatment of women. No argument here. But some of the complaints leveled on behalf of women as a group are made without regard for the fact that men also suffer the same difficulties, or equivalent difficulties.

For example, we often hear about how women are "forced" to choose between being a homemaker/stay-at-home-mom and being in the working world, and this is somehow some sort of sexist injustice. The thing is, men also are, to the same extent, also "forced" to choose between being a homemaker/stay-at-home-dad and being in the working world. Men, like women, cannot "have it all," and men who "choose" to stay home with their offspring will suffer at work for it. Why? Because if they're home, they're not working at their job/occupation. They will not be at the meetings, they will not be handling the work-a-day problems, and when it comes time for reviews and promotions, the men and women who are at work all year doing the job at the employer's place of business will be seen as more deserving of good reviews and promotions because they were there every day engaged in the employer's business.

So, on that point, I never really understood the complaint feminists had about having to "choose" between career and homemaking. Of course you do. Everyone does. The only thing that can be done is some sort of balanced compromise, where men and women could have things like time-off for defined periods of time and such.

And, men's issues in life ought not be mocked as "problemz of teh menz." This belittles men's issues and suggests that they are not as important as women's issues. If we truly are to achieve feminism as a measure of "equality", then certainly it ought not to start with the general proposition that women's issues are serious issues and men's issues are trumped up false complaints of "teh menz."

[DaveDodo007]

You're very oppressed, Dave.

There, you feel better now?

Way to miss the point of my post.

I barely read it..

But you (and other femo haters) seem to be always going on about how it's hard to be teh man too. It looked like that was what you were going on about again. I apologise if you weren't.

But you (and other femo haters.)

So you are reduced to Argumentum ad Watsonism.

[pErvinalia]

nah, it's argumentum ad Dave rantium.

[Coito ergo sum]

You're very oppressed, Dave.

There, you feel better now?

Way to miss the point of my post.

I barely read it..

But you (and other femo haters) seem to be always going on about how it's hard to be teh man too. It looked like that was what you were going on about again. I apologise if you weren't.

But you (and other femo haters.)

So you are reduced to Argumentum ad Watsonism.

Teh menz.
Dudebros

Your argument is therefore invalid.

[Robert_S]

A man refilled a woman's wine glass and she got drunker than intended,

A woman gave a man a white feather and he ended up in one more war than he intended.

[DaveDodo007]

Lol, feminism.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/06/m ... bewitched/

[Boyle]

Well, I'm all for feminism in terms of equal treatment of women. No argument here. But some of the complaints leveled on behalf of women as a group are made without regard for the fact that men also suffer the same difficulties, or equivalent difficulties.

For example, we often hear about how women are "forced" to choose between being a homemaker/stay-at-home-mom and being in the working world, and this is somehow some sort of sexist injustice. The thing is, men also are, to the same extent, also "forced" to choose between being a homemaker/stay-at-home-dad and being in the working world. Men, like women, cannot "have it all," and men who "choose" to stay home with their offspring will suffer at work for it. Why? Because if they're home, they're not working at their job/occupation. They will not be at the meetings, they will not be handling the work-a-day problems, and when it comes time for reviews and promotions, the men and women who are at work all year doing the job at the employer's place of business will be seen as more deserving of good reviews and promotions because they were there every day engaged in the employer's business.

So, on that point, I never really understood the complaint feminists had about having to "choose" between career and homemaking. Of course you do. Everyone does. The only thing that can be done is some sort of balanced compromise, where men and women could have things like time-off for defined periods of time and such.

And, men's issues in life ought not be mocked as "problemz of teh menz." This belittles men's issues and suggests that they are not as important as women's issues. If we truly are to achieve feminism as a measure of "equality", then certainly it ought not to start with the general proposition that women's issues are serious issues and men's issues are trumped up false complaints of "teh menz."

Basically agree. I've not personally heard folks complain about having to balance work/life as a feminist issue, but that's immaterial.

Men's issues shouldn't be mocked, no, but when folks are discussing women's issues like casual forms of sexism (catcalls, inappropriate flirting, general objectification as sexual objects), it is not totally appropriate to bring up issues like absent fathers or myths surrounding male rape. That's when I've seen men's issues being trivialized. I don't necessarily agree with that trivialization and mocking, but I can see how it would be annoying for it to constantly come up. I mean, we have the separated subfora here for a reason. Folks don't want to see shit posted about gods in The Pub.

At this point, though, there haven't been a lot of venues to speak about those issues in a productive manner, especially not on feminist forums. After all, those folks are talking about issues that appear to primarily affect women and are negative. That said, I have been seeing more and more people talk about men's issues in a productive manner. By productive, I mean in a way that isn't inherently inflammatory or anti-feminist.