What is feminism? PZ rape thread derail

[Robert_S]

They are saying white feminists are privileged and complicit in the continued oppression of ethnic cultures by ignoring their voices while claiming that those with privilege should shut up and listen.

And there's also Blackpowerisforblackmen.

These issues are being hashed out all over the place. That's why they coined the word "intersectional".

Is that a new gender label?

Nah, it's about how power differentials such as race, economic status, gender, sexuality and so on all mash together.

[Audley Strange]

They are saying white feminists are privileged and complicit in the continued oppression of ethnic cultures by ignoring their voices while claiming that those with privilege should shut up and listen.

And there's also Blackpowerisforblackmen.

These issues are being hashed out all over the place. That's why they coined the word "intersectional".

Yes they needed to intersect their privileged position with that of the oppressed to perpetuate their nonsense. They do love coining words, pity none of them ever mean what they normally do.

[DaveDodo007]

What fucking adult attaches a label to themselves as it is beyond pathetic. Can anybody have their whole world experience and beliefs summed up in one or a few words. How simplistic must your world view be to be able to do that. Think how complex and complicated your interactions are with the world at large is. Think how nounce your inter species reactions are, your human relationships are going to be stellar, can you really pigeon hole them into a box. It is very sad that people limit themselves in such a way, curtailing your imagination rather than embracing it, looks like crabs in a bucket to me.

Who classifies people as "adults'? How can you say that the complex combination of levels of emotional, cognitive and physical maturity can be summed up in a single word?

Who should label themselves "skeptic" for that matter? I've seen a lot of my fellow atheists repost some stuff on Facebook without doing the relevant fact checking and get Snoped. It's even happened to me once. Once!

Here's the question: Is the solidarityisforwhitewomen thing anti-feminist or is it a self critique of feminism?

I don't think it's anti-feminist at all. It's anti-racism.

But why not talk to the source? Here's a chat with the woman who started the hashtag, and one of her colleagues: http://thehairpin.com/2013/08/solidarit ... r-hairpin/

Not really, Google 'Hugo Schwyzer.'

Here is one site.

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/02/17 ... -feminism/

Might/is bias but I kept getting a time out while trying to log onto a more neutral site which doesn't mean you will have the same problem as me.

[hadespussercats]

What fucking adult attaches a label to themselves as it is beyond pathetic. Can anybody have their whole world experience and beliefs summed up in one or a few words. How simplistic must your world view be to be able to do that. Think how complex and complicated your interactions are with the world at large is. Think how nounce your inter species reactions are, your human relationships are going to be stellar, can you really pigeon hole them into a box. It is very sad that people limit themselves in such a way, curtailing your imagination rather than embracing it, looks like crabs in a bucket to me.

Who classifies people as "adults'? How can you say that the complex combination of levels of emotional, cognitive and physical maturity can be summed up in a single word?

Who should label themselves "skeptic" for that matter? I've seen a lot of my fellow atheists repost some stuff on Facebook without doing the relevant fact checking and get Snoped. It's even happened to me once. Once!

Here's the question: Is the solidarityisforwhitewomen thing anti-feminist or is it a self critique of feminism?

I don't think it's anti-feminist at all. It's anti-racism.

But why not talk to the source? Here's a chat with the woman who started the hashtag, and one of her colleagues: http://thehairpin.com/2013/08/solidarit ... r-hairpin/

Not really, Google 'Hugo Schwyzer.'

Here is one site.

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/02/17 ... -feminism/

Might/is bias but I kept getting a time out while trying to log onto a more neutral site which doesn't mean you will have the same problem as me.

I have a working knowledge of who he is. I think I'm missing your point. maybe you could clarify a bit?

[DaveDodo007]

What fucking adult attaches a label to themselves as it is beyond pathetic. Can anybody have their whole world experience and beliefs summed up in one or a few words. How simplistic must your world view be to be able to do that. Think how complex and complicated your interactions are with the world at large is. Think how nounce your inter species reactions are, your human relationships are going to be stellar, can you really pigeon hole them into a box. It is very sad that people limit themselves in such a way, curtailing your imagination rather than embracing it, looks like crabs in a bucket to me.

Who classifies people as "adults'? How can you say that the complex combination of levels of emotional, cognitive and physical maturity can be summed up in a single word?

Who should label themselves "skeptic" for that matter? I've seen a lot of my fellow atheists repost some stuff on Facebook without doing the relevant fact checking and get Snoped. It's even happened to me once. Once!

Here's the question: Is the solidarityisforwhitewomen thing anti-feminist or is it a self critique of feminism?

I don't think it's anti-feminist at all. It's anti-racism.

But why not talk to the source? Here's a chat with the woman who started the hashtag, and one of her colleagues: http://thehairpin.com/2013/08/solidarit ... r-hairpin/

Not really, Google 'Hugo Schwyzer.'

Here is one site.

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/02/17 ... -feminism/

Might/is bias but I kept getting a time out while trying to log onto a more neutral site which doesn't mean you will have the same problem as me.

I have a working knowledge of who he is. I think I'm missing your point. maybe you could clarify a bit?

He used to attack ethnic feminists and undermine them to earn brownie points with the white middle class feminist, something he apologized for during his meltdown on twitter.

[hadespussercats]

So, how is that different from what I'd posited, about sifww being anti- racism, not anti- feminism?

[DaveDodo007]

So, how is that different from what I'd posited, about sifww being anti- racism, not anti- feminism?

Erm.... It not only shows that the white middle class feminists don't care about racism but they are only using feminism to benefit themselves; feminism is an ideology that mostly supports the white middle class feminists to the detriment of other women. This exposes the lie that feminism is about equality for all women which was the whole point.

[Robert_S]

So, how is that different from what I'd posited, about sifww being anti- racism, not anti- feminism?

Erm.... It not only shows that the white middle class feminists don't care about racism but they are only using feminism to benefit themselves; feminism is an ideology that mostly supports the white middle class feminists to the detriment of other women. This exposes the lie that feminism is about equality for all women which was the whole point.

Wait, some guy "used to attack ethnic feminists and undermine them to earn brownie points with the white middle class feminist, something he apologized for during his meltdown on twitter." and now he's no longer part of feminism. That that tactic didn't work out for him in the long run shows that feminism is racist?

[Robert_S]

Dodo Dude, whatever you're trying to prove about how awful feminism is, I don't think that the rejection of this guy is going to accomplish it.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/ ... -a-twitter

For the record, I don't consider myself feminist or non-feminist. I just happen to have a lot of views that mesh well with a lot of people who self identify as feminists.

[epepke]

For every movement, there will be people who consider it a bowel movement and seek to use it as cover. Once people get the label, they get to do more shit that is contrary to the ideas it defines.

Consider:

Christians who try to avoid following Jesus as much as possible.
Child-buggerers who seek the moral superiority of being a priest or have a foundation for troubled youth.
Conservatives who nearly bankrupt the country with profligacy.
Liberals who are as illiberal as possible.
Libertarians who are extremely authoritarian.
Skeptics who wouldn't know how to be skeptical if their lives depended on it.

Feminism has this, too. The only thing that makes feminism unusual is that, so far in history, the reflexive defensiveness of the label and internecine conflicts has been so strong that it self-destructs rather than adapting. This is why there are waves.

[Audley Strange]

I always thought the waves were

1. "Evil men! Give us the Vote!" "Sure!"
2. "Evil Men! Give us legal equality." "Sure!"
3. "Evil Men. Ummmm errr EVIL!!!" "What?" "Shut up and listen!"

[Robert_S]

I always thought the waves were

1. "Evil men! Give us the Vote!" "Sure!"
2. "Evil Men! Give us legal equality." "Sure!"
3. "Evil Men. Ummmm errr EVIL!!!" "What?" "Shut up and listen!"

Solidarityisforwhitewomen: "Hey white women: Shut up and listen" ...

There are people who need to shut up and listen more often. Although the term is easily abused, there is a phenomenon worthy of being called "mansplaining" and even more so with "whitesplainin". Not a single white person around knows firsthand what it's like to be pulled over by the cops while black. Few men know firsthand what it's like to have so many offers of sex that it's a daily pain in the ass.

On the other hand, I do know what white people say when there are no non-white people around and I know what men say when there are no women around. I have a few clues about how sexism and racism work that people of women and people of color might not have.

[Audley Strange]

Yeah that's my point. They won't shut up and listen. They ignore everyone's voices except when it gives them SJ cred to do so. I'm going to say the majority of white women don't give a shit about black people. Not that they actively oppress them, but that they literally don't give them any thought from one moment to the next, except when that 19 year old is snooping around their car. Then they get all guilty about their racist assumptions and then find a way not to blame themselves. Blame the Menz!

How far does that "listen to the women" really get you? (People of women, that's fucking funny ) Anonymous third hand rape allegations being considered evidence? Women using their oppressed status to bully and harrass others, especially other women that don't agree? A bunch of stupid bitches demanding lags mags be covered, because the sexually objectify women, yet leave women's magazines covers which are practically identical alone?

A lot of this is nothing to do with equality, it is pandering to a specific class and group and bringing in laws to favour and protect them. That to me is privilege. I think it the prime and legal definition of such.

It's all this "micro-aggression" and "making the personal political" turns it into a demand to "legitimise my whine!", it's victim Olympics. In much the same way as in the intelligence services, whomever tells the scariest story wins.

It's a get out of jail free card for a bunch of shits really.

[DaveDodo007]

So, how is that different from what I'd posited, about sifww being anti- racism, not anti- feminism?

Erm.... It not only shows that the white middle class feminists don't care about racism but they are only using feminism to benefit themselves; feminism is an ideology that mostly supports the white middle class feminists to the detriment of other women. This exposes the lie that feminism is about equality for all women which was the whole point.

Wait, some guy "used to attack ethnic feminists and undermine them to earn brownie points with the white middle class feminist, something he apologized for during his meltdown on twitter." and now he's no longer part of feminism. That that tactic didn't work out for him in the long run shows that feminism is racist?

No offense Robert_S but you are being disingenuous here. I said it was Hugo Schwyzers affair that brought this to my attention and you decide to nitpick that one example which I even admitted was a bias one. The other links weren't working for me so I suggest trying the other links. Apparently it has been going on for years and he is a small sample of it that is easy to find on Google. It is just an example of some feminists questioning other feminists about their claims of being for equality for all women.

I'm against feminism because it is an ideology and I'm against all ideologies because the lead to group think and cult like behaviour. I just pointed the above out to show all is not well at feminism HQ.

[DaveDodo007]

What fucking adult attaches a label to themselves as it is beyond pathetic. Can anybody have their whole world experience and beliefs summed up in one or a few words. How simplistic must your world view be to be able to do that. Think how complex and complicated your interactions are with the world at large is. Think how nounce your inter species reactions are, your human relationships are going to be stellar, can you really pigeon hole them into a box. It is very sad that people limit themselves in such a way, curtailing your imagination rather than embracing it, looks like crabs in a bucket to me.

Who classifies people as "adults'? How can you say that the complex combination of levels of emotional, cognitive and physical maturity can be summed up in a single word?

Who should label themselves "skeptic" for that matter? I've seen a lot of my fellow atheists repost some stuff on Facebook without doing the relevant fact checking and get Snoped. It's even happened to me once. Once!

Here's the question: Is the solidarityisforwhitewomen thing anti-feminist or is it a self critique of feminism?

I don't think it's anti-feminist at all. It's anti-racism.

But why not talk to the source? Here's a chat with the woman who started the hashtag, and one of her colleagues: http://thehairpin.com/2013/08/solidarit ... r-hairpin/

Of course it isn't anti-feminism as it is feminists complaining about other feminists not living up to the goals of feminism, I'm just highlighting it to show the flaws of feminism. Sorry for not making that clear earlier.