What if the US did nothing?

[Clinton Huxley]

Indeed, aid was supplied to Russia by the US and by Blighty too. It was important but I think the more chauvinistic of our commentators overstate it.

[piscator]

Indeed, aid was supplied to Russia by the US and by Blighty too. It was important but I think the more chauvinistic of our commentators overstate it.

That's probably because you don't know any better...


"To sum up the results of the lend-lease program as a whole, the Soviet Union received, over the war years,
21,795 planes,
12,056 tanks,
4,158 armored personnel carriers,
7,570 tractor trucks,
8,000 antiaircraft and 5,000 antitank guns,
132,000 machine-guns,
472 million artillery shells,
9,351 transceivers customized to Soviet-made fighter planes,
2.8 million tons of petroleum products,
102 ocean-going dry cargo vessels,
29 tankers,
23 sea tugboats and icebreakers,
433 combat ships and gunboats,
as well as mobile bridges, railroad equipment, aircraft radar equipment, and many other items"

http://www.oilru.com/or/23/390/


The US built the AlCan Highway to start the Northwest Staging Route, and British Lancasters sunk the Tirpitz, the sister ship to the Bismark the Germans dispatched to intercept the convoys to Archangel and Murmansk. Supplying the Soviets was a major fucking deal involving huge investments in resources and manpower by the Allies, and massive redeployments by the Axis in an attempt to prevent it. It's no mystery why the Soviets started to turn the tide of battle coincidentally with the mounting success of the Allied convoys. Teamwork FTW.

[mistermack]

That's probably because you don't know any better...

I think it's you that know's fuck-all.

Do you not even understand what lend-lease means?
Far from being the great benefactor that you are trying to portray, the US was SELLING, on a lend-lease arrangement, old and outdated shite at inflated prices to the desperate people who were trying to stop Hitler.

Instead of doing their part, the US stood back in the most cowardly fashion, and let other people lose their lives while THEY were getting richer and richer. Not only were Russia and Britain doing America's share of the fighting, they were paying America a fortune for the privilege.

Your pathetic attempt to paint the US as some sort of saintly white knight is ludicrous.
All Americans should be ashamed of the whole episode. It's a national disgrace.

[piscator]

That's probably because you don't know any better...

I think it's you that know's fuck-all.

Do you not even understand what lend-lease means?
Far from being the great benefactor that you are trying to portray, the US was SELLING, on a lend-lease arrangement, old and outdated shite at inflated prices to the desperate people who were trying to stop Hitler.

Instead of doing their part, the US stood back in the most cowardly fashion, and let other people lose their lives while THEY were getting richer and richer. Not only were Russia and Britain doing America's share of the fighting, they were paying America a fortune for the privilege.

Your pathetic attempt to paint the US as some sort of saintly white knight is ludicrous.
All Americans should be ashamed of the whole episode. It's a national disgrace.

Are you pissed because you had to pay back a loan? Awww.
Do you think the US took advantage of your lack of sophistication and naive innocence and swindled you, and now you feel like a chump? It's not like we were holding a gun to your head. You could have just refused, or just not asked for it in the first place.

Is that what they teach you in school, that you don't have to pay back loans? Australia hasn't changed much from its inception, I see.

[mistermack]

What? Are you pissed because you had to pay back a loan? Do you think the US took advantage of your innocence and swindled you, and now you feel like a chump? It's not like we were holding a gun to your head. You could have just refused, or just not asked for it in the first place.

Yeh right. It's a bit different when the US wants to fight a war, isn't it?
Come on lads, join the coalition. Let's stand shoulder to shoulder.

Two faced cunts.

[piscator]

What? Are you pissed because you had to pay back a loan? Do you think the US took advantage of your innocence and swindled you, and now you feel like a chump? It's not like we were holding a gun to your head. You could have just refused, or just not asked for it in the first place.

Yeh right. It's a bit different when the US wants to fight a war, isn't it?
Come on lads, join the coalition. Let's stand shoulder to shoulder.

Two faced cunts.

"Once a debtor's colony, always a debtor's colony", it seems...


Tough shit. Fork it over. There's no place left to send you but Afghanistan.

[Warren Dew]

Clinton, To be specific, 470,000 motor vehicles were supplied by the Allies to the Soviet Union, which was more than the Soviets' own production. Basically the allies provided most of the transport, and the Soviets produced most of their own tanks and planes, and used their own soldiers, for fighting.

The Germans were overextended in Stalingrad, but even if they had still lost Stalingrad as they did, they retained strategic superiority until the Battle of Kursk the following year. Without lend lease aid, and without Italy being invaded and the Torch landings in 1943, I think it's quite possible the Soviets would have lost.

It doesn't really make much difference anyway. Britain by herself would not have been able to mount an invasion of the continent, so it was just a question of whether the continental dictatorship was German or Russian.

[Warren Dew]

Far from being the great benefactor that you are trying to portray, the US was SELLING, on a lend-lease arrangement, old and outdated shite at inflated prices to the desperate people who were trying to stop Hitler.

I think it's you who doesn't understand how lend lease worked. The equipment was new manufacture, and the terms were that it wouldn't be paid for, but would be returned after the war if it hadn't been destroyed.

In practice, little was returned, and in fact equipment in transit at the end of the war was mostly still delivered. The stuff delivered after the war was mostly paid for at a 90% discount, a deal the Brits were happy to take.

[Blind groper]

To put this into perspective. During WWII, the Soviets, as their war effort, made over 100,000 tanks, plus over 100,000 aircraft, plus over 700,000 artillery pieces, plus nearly 1.5 million machine guns.

The American aid effort was useful, as I said before, and no doubt hastened Hitlers defeat, but the vast bulk of the war effort to defeat him came from the Soviets.

[piscator]

To put this into perspective. During WWII, the Soviets, as their war effort, made over 100,000 tanks, plus over 100,000 aircraft, plus over 700,000 artillery pieces, plus nearly 1.5 million machine guns.

And 20 locomotives to replace the 400 they lost in Belarus and Lithuania alone. And no trucks. And no ships. Try again.

And in the interests of perspective, the US sent Britain over 3 times as much stuff. Because:

"Left behind in [Dunkirk] France were 2,472 guns, 20,000 motorcycles and almost 65,000 other vehicles; also abandoned were 416,000 short tons (377,000 t) of stores, more than 75,000 short tons (68,000 t) of ammunition and 162,000 short tons (147,000 t) of fuel."

BTW, the German general who threw the combined Brits, Kiwis, Canuks, and French into the sea was none other than Gerd von Rundstedt and his army of little children.

[Hermit]

That's probably because you don't know any better...

I think it's you that know's fuck-all.

Do you not even understand what lend-lease means?
Far from being the great benefactor that you are trying to portray, the US was SELLING, on a lend-lease arrangement, old and outdated shite at inflated prices to the desperate people who were trying to stop Hitler.

Instead of doing their part, the US stood back in the most cowardly fashion, and let other people lose their lives while THEY were getting richer and richer. Not only were Russia and Britain doing America's share of the fighting, they were paying America a fortune for the privilege.

Your pathetic attempt to paint the US as some sort of saintly white knight is ludicrous.
All Americans should be ashamed of the whole episode. It's a national disgrace.

Are you pissed because you had to pay back a loan? Awww.
Do you think the US took advantage of your lack of sophistication and naive innocence and swindled you, and now you feel like a chump? It's not like we were holding a gun to your head. You could have just refused, or just not asked for it in the first place.

Is that what they teach you in school, that you don't have to pay back loans? Australia hasn't changed much from its inception, I see.

Since when is mistermack Australian - or even just speaking on behalf of Australia? Did it even have a lend-lease arrangement with the US? If so, has it been paid out, or is it being paid out?

It's also worth noting that Great Britain has paid for its contract in full by 2006.

[Blind groper]

Piscator

Try to keep your posts intelligent.
My list of what the Soviets manufactured was indicative and incomplete. (Taken from Wiki). Of course they were also manufacturing trucks and trains and so on.

The point is that anything given by the USA under lend lease was small compared to what the Soviets were making themselves.

[Seth]

That's probably because you don't know any better...

I think it's you that know's fuck-all.

Do you not even understand what lend-lease means?
Far from being the great benefactor that you are trying to portray, the US was SELLING, on a lend-lease arrangement, old and outdated shite at inflated prices to the desperate people who were trying to stop Hitler.

Instead of doing their part, the US stood back in the most cowardly fashion, and let other people lose their lives while THEY were getting richer and richer. Not only were Russia and Britain doing America's share of the fighting, they were paying America a fortune for the privilege.

Wasn't our war at that time. First you piss and moan about American adventurism in Iraq and elsewhere, then you piss on America for not adventuring into the UK as soon as you would have liked. You know what we call that? Hypocrisy.

Your pathetic attempt to paint the US as some sort of saintly white knight is ludicrous.
All Americans should be ashamed of the whole episode. It's a national disgrace.

Go fuck yourself. I think we'll sit out the next one and let you all speak Farsi.

[Blind groper]

Speaking Farsi?
That is one of the silliest comments Seth has made. Afghanis were never a threat to anyone. Nor the Taliban. Al Qaeda was the enemy, and the best way of dealing with them was, as I said before, undercover agents and precisely targeted action. The entire bloody war and all its casualties was unnecessary from the beginning. It was a political stunt by Dubya, who did not care how many people he killed as long as he got reelected. American forces should never have gone in.

[Seth]

Speaking Farsi?
That is one of the silliest comments Seth has made. Afghanis were never a threat to anyone. Nor the Taliban. Al Qaeda was the enemy, and the best way of dealing with them was, as I said before, undercover agents and precisely targeted action. The entire bloody war and all its casualties was unnecessary from the beginning. It was a political stunt by Dubya, who did not care how many people he killed as long as he got reelected. American forces should never have gone in.

Ever hear of the Islamic Caliphate and the Hidden Imam?

Didn't think so.