What is feminism? PZ rape thread derail

[Coito ergo sum]

Yes, totally scared. It's the 21st century and anybody who doesn't think women are equal to men is fucked up. I'm more worried about their all sex is rape bullshit, I'm not going to prison for 15 years because I didn't fill out a consent form.

The women that think like that aren't feminists - just because they insist that they are louder than anyone else doesn't make it so! They are simply trying to hijack feminism and make it into a feminist "movement", with tagged-on political ideology and misandry. They can fuck off!

Those are the ones DaveDodo was telling to fuck off. You've just told them to fuck off. So, you and he agree.

[Coito ergo sum]

Now I've probably got the feminists all pissed off at me because I'm joking about rape.
Feminists want to control your language. Feminists want to tell you how to talk.
And they're not alone. They're not alone. I'm not picking on the feminists.
They got a lot of company in this country. There's a lot of groups, a lot of institutions in this country want to control your language.
Tell you what you can say and what you can't say. Government wants to tell you some things you can't say because it's against the law.
Well you can't say this because it's against the regulation.
Well here's something you can't say because it's a secret.
"You can't tell him that, because he's not clear to know that."
Government wants to control information and control language, because that's the way you control thought...
and basically that's the game their in.
Same with religion. Religion is nothing but mind control.
Religion is just trying to control your mind, control your thought, so their going to tell you some things you shouldn't say because they're sins.
And besides telling you some things you shouldn't say, religion's going to suggest to you some things you ought to be saying.
Here's something you ought to say first thing when you wake up in the morning.
Here's something you ought to say just before you go to sleep at night.
Here's something we always say on the third Wednesday in April after the first full moon in spring at four o'clock when the bells ring.
Religion is always suggesting things you ought to be saying.
Same with political groups of all kinds, political activists, anti- bias groups, special interest groups, are going to suggest the correct political vocabulary.
The way you ought to be saying things, and that's where the feminists come in.

As I said, I got nothing against the feminists.
In fact, I happen to agree with most of the feminist philosophy I have read.
I agree for instance, that for the most part, men are vain, ignorant, greedy, brutal assholes who've just about ruined this planet
...who've just...who've just about ruined this planet because they're afraid someone might have a bigger dick out there somewhere.
Men are basically insecure about the size of their dicks and so they go to war over it.
You don't have to be a political scientist or a history major to see the bigger dick foreign policy theory at work.
It goes something like this..."what they have bigger dicks? Bomb them!!!"
And of course the bombs and the bullets and the rockets are all shaped like dicks.
I don't understand that part of it, but it is part of the equation.
So I agree with that abstract. That man... men...males have pushed the technology that just about has this planet in a stranglehold.
Mother Earth raped again, guess who..."hey she was asking for it."

I also happen to like it when feminists attack these fat-ass housewives who think there's nothing more to life that sitting home on the telephone,
drinking coffee, watching TV and pumping out a baby every nine months.
P-poom, p-poom, p-poom, p-poom, p-poom...will seven be enough Bob?
...p-poom, p-poom. But what's the alternative? What's the alternative to pumping out a unit every nine months?
Pointless careerism? Pointless careerism? Putting on a man-tailored suit with shoulder pads and imitating all the worst behavior of men?
This is the noblest thing that women can think of?
To take a job in a criminal corporation that's poisoning the environment and robbing customers out of their money?
This is the worthiest thing they can think of? Isn't there something nobler they can do to be helping this planet heal?
You don't hear much about that from these middle-class women.
I've noticed that most of these feminists are white middle-class women.
They don't give a shit about black women's problems.
They don't care about Latino women.
All they're interested in is their own reproductive freedom...and their pocketbooks.
But, when it comes to changing the language, I think they make some good points,
because we do think in language and so the quality of our thoughts and ideas could only be as good as the quality of our language.
So maybe some of this patriarcho shit ought to go away.
I think spokesman ought to be spokesperson.
I think chairman ought to be chairperson.
I think mankind ought to be human kind, but they take it too far, they take themselves too seriously,
they exaggerate.
They want me to call that thing in the street a personhole cover.
I think that's taking it a little bit too far.
What would you call a lady's man, a person's person?
That would make a He-man an It-person.
Little kids would be afraid of the boogieperson.
They'd look up in the sky and see the person in the moon.
Guys would say come back here and fight like a person.
And we'd all sing "for it's a jolly good person."
That's the kind of thing you would hear on late-night with David Letterperson.
You know what I mean? So...so I think it's an exaggeration and I like to piss off any group that take's itself a little bit too seriously.
An it does not take a lot of imagination to piss off a feminist.
All you gotta do is run into NOW headquarters or Ms. magazine and say,
"hey, which one of you cute little cupcakes wants to come home and cook me a nice meal and give me a blowjob!" "blowjob!"
Oh. Oh, that pisses them off. You want to piss off a feminist, call her a cum-catcher.
That'll get her attention. Aww don't act disgusted. Don't act disgusted.
Half of you are going to go home and go down on each other tonight remember?
If you're willing to swallow cum, let's not make believe something I said was disgusting. Okay? Huh?
All right, let's not have a double standard here, one standard will do just fine.

Now, speaking of blowjobs, do you know why they call it a blowjob?
So it'll sound like it has kind of a work ethic attached to it. Make you feel like you did something useful for the economy.
As long as I'm being a complete pig up here, let me ask you guys a question.
Let me ask, let me ask one question of the men.
Are you ever able to watch a woman eating a banana and not think about a blowjob? Huh?
I can't do it and I know why. I'm a sick evil fuck.
I accept that, but I can't do it. Eating a banana, eating a pickle, licking on an ice-cream cone.
I'm saying to myself, look at the tongue on her. Wooowww.
So you women be careful when your standing in front of that Hägen Daz.
Cause god dammit were watching, hah, and god dammit were thinking.

Another women's issue, prostitution. I do not understand why prostitution is illegal.
Why should prostitution be illegal. Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?
You know, why should it be illegal to sell something that's perfectly legal to give away.
I can't follow the logic on that at all. Of all the things you can do to a person, giving someone an orgasm is hardly the worst thing in the world.
In the army they give you a medal for spraying napalm on people.
Civilian life, you go to jail for giving someone an orgasm.
Maybe I'm not supposed to understand it.

George Carlin.

[pErvinalia]

edit: confused who said what and made a silly post.

[Thinking Aloud]

You are referring to the set "apelusting", yet trying to argue like the two sets are equivalent.

I don't think he was.

[pErvinalia]

edit: I apologise. I confused a quote of Dave with a quote of Coit. Apparently I'm sitting too far from my computer screen to see straight.

[Pappa]

Yes, totally scared. It's the 21st century and anybody who doesn't think women are equal to men is fucked up. I'm more worried about their all sex is rape bullshit, I'm not going to prison for 15 years because I didn't fill out a consent form.

The women that think like that aren't feminists - just because they insist that they are louder than anyone else doesn't make it so! They are simply trying to hijack feminism and make it into a feminist "movement", with tagged-on political ideology and misandry. They can fuck off!

I am a feminist. I am a feminist because I find it absurd whenever I see women with less opportunities in life than men. Because I think that jobs should be appointed and paid on merit without gender (or for that matter any other) bias and that everyone doing the same job to the same level of ability should receive equal pay within a company. Because I think that everyone should have complete freedom when it comes to choice of consenting sexual partner. Because I abhor the very idea of a wife as a possession. Because I think ALL children should be brought up without pre-conceived limitations based solely on their gender.

And most of all, I am a feminist cos if you're nice to girlies, sometimes you get nice things back - like a fuck, or a sandwich.

I see feminism as essentially redundant now. Not because discrimination against women has ended, but because feminism has been superseded by equality politics. Discrimination against women is now on a (very roughly) equal footing with discrimination based on skin colour, sexual orientation, disability, social class; and in certain specific ways, discrimination against men too.

I don't see why feminism is particularly necessary any more, in the political environment it sits.

[Thinking Aloud]

Of course he was. He directly said "feminists" in his post that kicked this part off, but then went on to distinguish between the different groups of "feminists" in an attempt to wiggle out of what he said. He either doesn't understand logic (which is a reasonable probability going by other things he's said before) or he understands it fine and he can't admit that he made a ridiculous statement about all feminists (something which is also of reasonable likelihood, given he can never admit when he is wrong).

I see your point, but I was letting that go as a contextual statement. Not the clearest, perhaps, but I knew what he meant - or at least how I interpreted it. We could pick apart semantics all day.

[pErvinalia]

See my edit. I think I fucked up with who said what. I'm just going to review the last couple of pages now.

[tattuchu]

You can still get a blow job off a feminist.

Not if this is his opinion of them.
Feminists normally only give blowjobs to real men.

That depends on the sort of feminist one is. There is apparently a "politics of blowjobs" debate among various factions of feminism. http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2 ... -blowjobs/

Interesting article, but then I got to this:

"Give your partner a blowjob and you’ve made someone you care about feel good. Those are valuable things....But...What does it mean, in the context of a society in which men and women are not on equal footing and in which sex is often used as a tool to cause harm to women and girls, when women physically submit to their male sexual partners? "

It confused me because blowjobs don't just make your male partner feel good. They make you feel good too. Certainly it's an enjoyable experience for both participants? I know it is for me. In fact I like giving oral sex more than just about anything. Having a stiff dick in my mouth is extremely enjoyable and satisfying. And I ain't even a fag.
Also the line about "submitting" to the male partner struck me as odd, as if the male has all the power in such a situation. It can be a dominance thing, sure, but it doesn't have to be. I mean, shit, if a woman has your dick in her mouth, it seems to me that she's the one who has all the power at the moment! You're entirely at her mercy!

[pErvinalia]

Yes, totally scared. It's the 21st century and anybody who doesn't think women are equal to men is fucked up. I'm more worried about their all sex is rape bullshit, I'm not going to prison for 15 years because I didn't fill out a consent form.

The women that think like that aren't feminists - just because they insist that they are louder than anyone else doesn't make it so! They are simply trying to hijack feminism and make it into a feminist "movement", with tagged-on political ideology and misandry. They can fuck off!

Those are the ones DaveDodo was telling to fuck off. You've just told them to fuck off. So, you and he agree.

Here it is again. DaveDodo was talking about all feminists.

[pErvinalia]

Yes, totally scared. It's the 21st century and anybody who doesn't think women are equal to men is fucked up. I'm more worried about their all sex is rape bullshit, I'm not going to prison for 15 years because I didn't fill out a consent form.

The women that think like that aren't feminists - just because they insist that they are louder than anyone else doesn't make it so! They are simply trying to hijack feminism and make it into a feminist "movement", with tagged-on political ideology and misandry. They can fuck off!

I am a feminist. I am a feminist because I find it absurd whenever I see women with less opportunities in life than men. Because I think that jobs should be appointed and paid on merit without gender (or for that matter any other) bias and that everyone doing the same job to the same level of ability should receive equal pay within a company. Because I think that everyone should have complete freedom when it comes to choice of consenting sexual partner. Because I abhor the very idea of a wife as a possession. Because I think ALL children should be brought up without pre-conceived limitations based solely on their gender.

And most of all, I am a feminist cos if you're nice to girlies, sometimes you get nice things back - like a fuck, or a sandwich.

I see feminism as essentially redundant now. Not because discrimination against women has ended, but because feminism has been superseded by equality politics. Discrimination against women is now on a (very roughly) equal footing with discrimination based on skin colour, sexual orientation, disability, social class; and in certain specific ways, discrimination against men too.

I don't see why feminism is particularly necessary any more, in the political environment it sits.

The reason why I think it is important is because females aren't a minority, so the discrimination against them is even harder to countenance. In some senses, you can see why discrimination against minorities persists. Discrimination against minorities doesn't affect as many people as discrimination against women. I'm of course not saying discrimination against minorities is acceptable. Just explaining why there is a quantitative difference.

[DaveDodo007]

Hooray! I'm fucked up.

I don't think women are equal to men. I don't know what that means, what are we equating? Wages? Well I've heard the talking points and it seems that in places like the U.K. it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender. So if women aren't getting the same wages. Go to the police.

Crime? Well apart from the fact that most crimes are still commited by men and most assaults and murders are commited on men, what's the big deal? Rape? Oh well that's a crime. Go to the police.

How about not being taken seriously? Well when people would rather complain that there is a problem rather than do something about it, When their talking points are so easily refuted, when their whines betray both their supposed ideology and others they are meant to be fighting for, why would anyone take them seriously.

This kind of victim feminism is an affront to women and men, it is an insult to those in the women's movement of the past and an insult to those who have real struggles. Gossip and finger pointing make you a fucking bitch, not a feminist.

Yeah I should have been clearer, I meant equal rights for all, whatever your gender, sexuality or ethnicity. after that you are on your own.

[Robert_S]

I see feminism as essentially redundant now. Not because discrimination against women has ended, but because feminism has been superseded by equality politics. Discrimination against women is now on a (very roughly) equal footing with discrimination based on skin colour, sexual orientation, disability, social class; and in certain specific ways, discrimination against men too.

I don't see why feminism is particularly necessary any more, in the political environment it sits.

I think now that the goals are oriented towards culture and are therefore softer, feminism needs to go more towards the promoting the hard science to maintain relevance. We've seen that demonstrated with stereotype threat. Why not some more scientific research into whether the narratives of video games, movies and television actually have an influence on how men and women perceive their own and each other's tendencies and capabilities? Mayhaps there is a link, mayhaps not.

Could it be shown scientifically that a lot of women have seen the "pretty princess needs rescuing" meme so long that they act passively even when they're capable of being a lot more assertive? If it has, why isn't it making the rounds on my FB wall?

I am a lot more open to the possibility that there might be something to this whole "rape culture" business, even if I still think that it is rather unfortunately named for a meme that wants widespread acceptance. Some of the things around the Stubbensville case have given me pause. But where is the research? Where are the surveys? Where are the psyche experiments? If they've been done, then why can an NPR listening, liberal Facebook feed having, atheist forum goer not know of them off the top of his head?

[DaveDodo007]

Yes, totally scared. It's the 21st century and anybody who doesn't think women are equal to men is fucked up. I'm more worried about their all sex is rape bullshit, I'm not going to prison for 15 years because I didn't fill out a consent form.

The women that think like that aren't feminists - just because they insist that they are louder than anyone else doesn't make it so! They are simply trying to hijack feminism and make it into a feminist "movement", with tagged-on political ideology and misandry. They can fuck off!

Those are the ones DaveDodo was telling to fuck off. You've just told them to fuck off. So, you and he agree.

Here it is again. DaveDodo was talking about all feminists.

Yes I am talking about all feminists. If a women tells me she is a feminist then what do I know about her that I didn't know before (apart from the fact that I now know she is a ideologue.) Is she pro/anti sex? Does she like/hate men? Pro/anti porn? Equal opportunity/equal outcome? Pro/anti prostitution? Gender/equality? Somebody telling me they are a feminist isn't telling me anything much and two different feminists in the same room can have totally different ideas of what feminism is, so what is the point of that label? Feminism is sexist by its very nature and title, it wants a more favourable outcome for one gender over the other. If I called myself a caucasianalist then I'm hardly fighting for black rights am I.

I have no problem with 'rights' groups as in Women's rights movement or LGBT's rights movement or even men's rights movement because at least these groups are issue specific. For example if I meet a LGBT rights activist I can say to them "What rights do I have that you do not" and the most obvious answer will be "Well you have the right to marry and we don't." Bingo, they are clearly being discriminated against. Admittedly I'm a lazy cunt but I will vote for a politician that will support their right to marry.

Feminism is nothing but a white middle class mean girls club that uses silly scare tactics like 'patriarchy' and 'rape culture' as a coercion tool to get weak minded women to support them. I has done fuck all for women's rights in the third world and doesn't even pretend to care. You always know when a movement is an ideology when they use silence and censoring methods to shut down criticism rather than bring their political ideas to the market place. Try disagreeing with a feminist without either getting banned or called a misogynist, sexist or rape apologist. Equity feminist don't get a pass because they are legitimizing some crazy shit being produced in the name of feminism. /Rant over.

[pErvinalia]

I haven't seen XC or RobertS banning you.