Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:09 am

Robert_S wrote:I think physical punishment lends itself to bravado. I think we need boring, maximum boring. What's the most boring thing you can do to a person over say, a two week period?
Jury service?

Make the felons have to listen to other felons plead their innocence. That could work... :ask:
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Robert_S » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:14 am

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Robert_S wrote:I think physical punishment lends itself to bravado. I think we need boring, maximum boring. What's the most boring thing you can do to a person over say, a two week period?
Jury service?

Make the felons have to listen to other felons plead their innocence. That could work... :ask:
They do that already.

I suggest we set up a scenario where they have tasks, too simple to really be a challenge, yet too varied to get into a rhythm and do it on autopilot while the imagination roams elsewhere.

Answering a variety of very simple questions for 16 hours straight, maybe with small breaks for meals?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:16 am

Robert_S wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Robert_S wrote:I think physical punishment lends itself to bravado. I think we need boring, maximum boring. What's the most boring thing you can do to a person over say, a two week period?
Jury service?

Make the felons have to listen to other felons plead their innocence. That could work... :ask:
They do that already.

I suggest we set up a scenario where they have tasks, too simple to really be a challenge, yet too varied to get into a rhythm and do it on autopilot while the imagination roams elsewhere.

Answering a variety of very simple questions for 16 hours straight, maybe with small breaks for meals?
So.. a call centre?
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Tyrannical » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:25 am

Stockades seem like a good idea.
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Robert_S » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:28 am

You see, it [i[]has[/i] to be boring. You can command respect in some circles for having been in a dangerous or painful situation. You can tell exciting stories about violence and rebelling against the authority.

The account of the experience has to be boring as well. Nobody should want to hear of it. Nobody should be able to act out a sexual fantasy based on it.
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:So.. a call centre?
No, you can get your sadism on at one of those.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Blind groper » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:38 am

Punishment of any kind has never worked, if we judge by reoffending rates. If we lock someone up, at least that has the value that the offender cannot offend while imprisoned.

Of course, you could add value to capital punishment by having paying spectators.

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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Cormac » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:31 am

laklak wrote:Sure, why not? I'd add another option, the stocks. Let the lower orders throw rotten veggies at them. And tumbrels, always liked that idea.

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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:37 am

Robert_S wrote:I think physical punishment lends itself to bravado. I think we need boring, maximum boring. What's the most boring thing you can do to a person over say, a two week period?
Make them read a compilation of posts by CES and Seth arguing over the precise meaning of a word in the US Constitution?

They'd probably choose prison after a day of that.
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Svartalf » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:37 am

8th amendment , cruel and unusual... as I said, ready to void all that? Because what you propose IS exceedingly cruel.
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Robert_S » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:32 am

Blind groper wrote:Punishment of any kind has never worked, if we judge by reoffending rates. If we lock someone up, at least that has the value that the offender cannot offend while imprisoned.

Of course, you could add value to capital punishment by having paying spectators.
                      

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That's because we haven't found the right punishment. I think high levels of sustained boredom are worth a try.

Alternatively, we could use advanced annoyance techniques.

As it is we're depriving employers of workers and producers of consumers. We're depriving families of family members. We're sending people on long term criminal trajectories who may have the potential to become or remain valued members of our societies.

I'll tell you right now, if I wasn't afraid to go to jail, I'd sell enough reefer to buy Havana.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Audley Strange » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:47 am

Robert_S wrote:You see, it [i[]has[/i] to be boring. You can command respect in some circles for having been in a dangerous or painful situation. You can tell exciting stories about violence and rebelling against the authority.

The account of the experience has to be boring as well. Nobody should want to hear of it. Nobody should be able to act out a sexual fantasy based on it.
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:So.. a call centre?
No, you can get your sadism on at one of those.
Solitary isolation with no external stimuli. A blank soundproofed white room. For extra bad prisoners we increase the sentence and dose them with L.S.D.

Sound a bit more fashionable sci-fi rather than barbaric?
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Robert_S » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:50 am

I'm thinking more deterrent than damage.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Audley Strange » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:55 am

Can you have one without the other though?

Is it not pain and fear that deter us, especially in those moments of emotion where much of what we consider crime is committed?
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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Trinity » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:57 am

Audley Strange wrote:Can you have one without the other though?

Is it not pain and fear that deter us, especially in those moments of emotion where much of what we consider crime is committed?
It depends, I think, on an individual's tolerance of such and defence mechanisms at play.

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Re: Should we bring back corporal punishment for criminals?

Post by Tyrannical » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:04 pm

Robert_S wrote:I think physical punishment lends itself to bravado. I think we need boring, maximum boring. What's the most boring thing you can do to a person over say, a two week period?
Church, where they can pray for forgiveness for two straight weeks. Who knows, that threat of eternal damnation might work.
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