Hermit wrote:MiM wrote:Seth wrote:Blind groper wrote:Get real people. There is no tiger, and the odds against such a scenario are approaching astronomical.
The tiger is a metaphor. There are tigers...or perhaps jackals is a better metaphor...everywhere, even near where you are right this very moment. You just never see them till they strike.
And THOSE odds are anything but astronomical.
Very few that would be out to kill you, at least over here, so the odds are still minuscule. But then we do have a good social security system, and fairly restrictive gun laws, so things might be different where you live. And if they are only after your property, you have no business shooting them anyway.

Seth was switching horses again anyway. Blind groper was talking about guns and revolutions, concluding with: "You are so hung up on the need to own your own lethal toys that you cannot see that such ownership by private individuals is totally unnecessary." whereupon Seth replied: "Until it is. That's why it's not a "Bill of Needs" it's a "Bill of Rights."" I used the tiger as a metaphor in this context. Now he's switching back to guns in the context of ordinary crime again.
Only because that's what BG is doing. The same principle applies to both situations. A criminal predator is no less dangerous than a tyrannical government agent and the appropriate self-defense preparation is largely the same for both.
And it doesn't even have to be a government agent, it may merely be a large force of non-governmental criminals, like a drug syndicate or a motorcycle gang intent on enslaving others or merely victimizing them.
If you have tigers in your area, then it behooves you to learn how to defend yourself against tigers. If you live in a forest, then it behooves you to learn fire mitigation and suppression techniques. And since, as I have demonstrated, it's very hard to know exactly where all the metaphorical tigers actually are (like the escaped lions I referred to) and it's impossible to predict when and where and to whom such an event will happen, it's only prudent for each and every person to make a personal risk analysis and formulate a plan for response to likely and unlikely risk scenarios and obtain and learn how to properly use whatever tools they feel are best suited to dealing with that risk.
More pointedly it is both immoral and unconscionable for anyone else to presume to tell the individual how he may NOT plan and prepare to protect himself against specific perils he deems it necessary and reasonable to prepare for.
For example, I live in a small town now, but I still have a comprehensive wildfire-suppression system that cost well over $10,000 to create. It's a trailer equipped with a fire-rated motorized pump, a 500 gallon water bladder, nearly 2000 feet of fire hose of various sizes, adapters, fittings, nozzles, firefighting chemical delivery units and other equipment, including a full suite of both structure and wildland personal gear. I put this system together over the years because I regularly had to start, control and extinguish fires on the ranch. I had to burn ditches every year, burn pastures to eliminate weeds, and put out fires caused by trains, trespassers and lightning. I used it every single year for at least 20 years and the system was constantly evolving and improving.
I don't do that any more, but I never sold the equipment. I decided to do so last year and began looking for a buyer. Just as I was preparing to list it on Craigslist, a massive and horrifically destructive wildfire struck Black Forest, less than 5 miles away from me. Almost every fire company in the area was dispatched to fight that catastrophic fire that destroyed more than 500 homes and killed two people.
When that lit off, I prepared the equipment, made sure it was operating properly, hooked it up to the Hummer and drove to the local volunteer fire station. I spoke with the chief and informed him that the unit, which qualifies as a Type 3 fire truck, was available with me to engineer or without, and that it would be parked in front of my house, ready to go, with the keys in it for the duration of the emergency. I did this because there was grave danger that another fire might light off to the west of town, and with strong west winds would be blown quickly into town, and response might be compromised because so many assets were already committed to the Black Forest burn.
Fortunately, nothing happened and my equipment was not needed, but the chief was very pleased that I had contacted him and offered its use, just in case.
Do I "need" to have ten grand worth of firefighting gear? No, not really. But I used to need it, which is why I bought it. I assessed the "need" and risk as a rancher and made the investment, which has turned out to be extremely useful and prudent over the years. Many people made fun of my "mini fire department." My neighbors asked silly questions and scoffed at me for keeping it around long after I sold the ranch...right up until the Black Forest fire lit off, and then four of my neighbors made a point of coming by an telling me how much they appreciated and felt comforted by the fact that there was a "fire truck" parked near their houses. And had something jumped off, I was equipped and prepared to hook up to the hydrant right across the street and lay hose that would cover at least six houses which could potentially prevent a structure fire from beginning.
You see, most of the structures that burned were not directly impacted by a wall of flame (although a number were essentially detonated by exactly such a fire front), most of them burned because of ground-flames that crept up to the house using combustible materials that came right up to the house, or they were ignited by burning embers being thrown far ahead (as much a a mile or more) of the fire front that would lodge in leaf or pine-needle litter on roofs or in gutters or would be trapped under eaves where they ignited the roof.
So something as simple as a garden hose or sprinkler, or a bucket of water at the right time and right place can stop a fire dead in its tracks.
Am I silly? Am I overreacting to the threat? I was beginning to think so, and others thought so too, until it happened just a few miles away and had the potential of happening to them in a matter of minutes, as was the case for many of the homes in Black Forest. People had literally minutes to escape, and at least two people didn't make it.
Maybe I am being silly, but you see it's MY RIGHT and MY CHOICE to do so, and NOBODY has any right to tell me I can't build my own private fire brigade if that's what I want to do.
And this argument is a precise analogy when it comes to keeping and bearing arms for self-defense or defense of the community or nation.
YOU don't have to do it...as many people in Black Forest didn't do ANY fire mitigation or preparation and therefore lost everything they owned in the inferno...but you have no right to interfere with anyone else doing so.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
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