The Curious Case of the Fall in Crime.

[Seth]

You atre so hung up on the need to own your own lethal toys that you cannot see that such ownership by private individuals is totally unnecessary.

Until it is.

That's why it's not a "Bill of Needs" it's a "Bill of Rights."

When I was about twelve years old I collected stamps. There was a philatelic club in my town that had meetings every other Tuesday evening. In order to save money it booked a room of a restaurant in a village quite a few kilometres away, but there was no problem to get to it by train. One day, while travelling to one of those meetings I noticed a man taking some powder out of a tin and sprinkling it out of the window. I asked him what he was doing. He explained that the the stuff he spread out into the countryside is anti-tiger powder. "But, there are no tigers roaming about within thousands of kilometres of us." I noted. "See," he replied, "it's working already."

Tell me what happens when a tiger escapes from a circus in the village, then we can judge whether or not he was acting wisely.

[Hermit]

You atre so hung up on the need to own your own lethal toys that you cannot see that such ownership by private individuals is totally unnecessary.

Until it is.

That's why it's not a "Bill of Needs" it's a "Bill of Rights."

When I was about twelve years old I collected stamps. There was a philatelic club in my town that had meetings every other Tuesday evening. In order to save money it booked a room of a restaurant in a village quite a few kilometres away, but there was no problem to get to it by train. One day, while travelling to one of those meetings I noticed a man taking some powder out of a tin and sprinkling it out of the window. I asked him what he was doing. He explained that the the stuff he spread out into the countryside is anti-tiger powder. "But, there are no tigers roaming about within thousands of kilometres of us." I noted. "See," he replied, "it's working already."

Tell me what happens when a tiger escapes from a circus in the village, then we can judge whether or not he was acting wisely.

Funny, you should ask. That is precisely what happened in my town a year or two later. Someone tied a bone to a stick and lured the tiger back into its cage.

[MrJonno]

Definition of a tyrannical government is one that starts giving guns to everyone, its the first thing they tend to do stick everyone in the military . Iraq was a very good example just about every household there had a firearm.

Governments don't kill people the milita/military they arm do and they consist of the 'people'.

Do you know what Hitler did when he got into power liberalised gun ownership of civilians and started mass conscription, he truly loved an armed public. Strangely enough the first real restrictions on personal firearms in Germany came from the UK/USA in 1945

Jesus Fucking Christ. Is the education system where you come from really that fucked up?


The Famous German Totalitarian liberalized gun ownership for NASD members and government employees about a week before he invaded Poland, but the telling point is that he prohibited Jews from not only possessing and using firearms, but also the manufacture, shipping, and sale of firearms and ammunition.

Pull your head out of your ass, Beavis. If there were no restrictive German gun laws, how could Hitler have liberalized them in the first place?

Obviously education isn't run by the NRA here, Hitler did everything he could to encourage mass ownership of firearms. Nazism is what happens when the government encourages mass personal firearms and exactly the reason sensible countries do everything they can to make sure that never happens again. You want to take the exactly opposite and wrong lesson from history then fine , sane countries do everything they can to make sure we don't get 'people's militas

[Tyrannical]

Nazism is what happens when the government encourages mass personal firearms

Utterly ridiculous.

Even back in the Athenian democracy days, in order to vote you had to provide your own spear / armor / shield which was the ancient equivalent.

Hitler anticipated war and wanted the German people familiar with firearms. The US had a big advantage going into WWI and WWII that it already had a large populace of experienced gun users. Marksmanship takes time and practice, and basic training doesn't give you enough of that.

[MrJonno]

On a one to one basis the German army was more effective in combat than anyone else it fought, British, Russian Americans etc. It came less so in the later stages of the war as anyone with any experience was already dead.

One of the reasons they were more efficient is that didn't have the burden of 'freedom' and individualism which on the whole get in the way when trying to get people to kill or risk being killed.

In modern times training and equipment can make up for liberal democracy problem in getting people to kill in an orderly manner but in WW2 it was a numbers game. The German's lost because they took on too many enemies with too many resources not because of their lack of skill

[piscator]

Nazism is what happens when the government encourages mass personal firearms and exactly the reason sensible countries do everything they can to make sure that never happens again.

Hitler took guns away from the people he was planning to exterminate, so they couldn't resist.

Now, if you think that you'll become a Nazi if you were allowed to own a gun, then you have much in common with those who think they would rape and rob were it not for their strong religious addiction, and you evidently feel you need a authoritarian state to prevent that from happening.

Revel in your restrictions, you poster child for the Stockholm Syndrome!

[MrJonno]

I think a very high percentage of people has serious Nazi tendencies without firearms, innate hatred of anything different to yourself is actually pretty natural, via civilising influences we try to overtune such tendencies.

Human beings by their nature are violent animals which via social engineering (ie parenting and laws) we can tame to some extent but you don't give violent animals anything that enabled them to do more damage than is needed

[Audley Strange]

Nazism is what happens when the government encourages mass personal firearms and exactly the reason sensible countries do everything they can to make sure that never happens again.

I thought Nazism is what happened when a European power defeated in the first World war and hit with massive reparations and an economic collapse allows populist Nationalist Utopians with a chip on their shoulder about International Jewry and a strange belief in the manifest destiny of a mythic version of their people to become powerful, through a political process which was a shambles.

[piscator]

On a one to one basis the German army was more effective in combat than anyone else it fought, British, Russian Americans etc.

Tell that to Alvin York. Or Audie Murphy, or Vasily Zaitsev, Simo Hayha, or Lyudmila Pavlichenko for that matter...

I bet you were taught that Montgomery was the best darn general in WWII, right?

[MrJonno]

On a one to one basis the German army was more effective in combat than anyone else it fought, British, Russian Americans etc.

Tell that to Alvin York. Or Audie Murphy, or Vasily Zaitsev, Simo Hayha, or Lyudmila Pavlichenko for that matter...

I bet you were taught that Montgomery was the best darn general in WWII, right?

Strangely enough the most effective armies after the Nazism were the Soviets and the Japanese. Obviously the western value for individual life (even the enemies) makes war a lot harder

[MrJonno]

Nazism is what happens when the government encourages mass personal firearms and exactly the reason sensible countries do everything they can to make sure that never happens again.

I thought Nazism is what happened when a European power defeated in the first World war and hit with massive reparations and an economic collapse allows populist Nationalist Utopians with a chip on their shoulder about International Jewry and a strange belief in the manifest destiny of a mythic version of their people to become powerful, through a political process which was a shambles.

Combined with a larger number of public militia owned firearms left over from WW1 leading to chaos and public demand to end it

[Svartalf]

Nazism is what happens when the government encourages mass personal firearms and exactly the reason sensible countries do everything they can to make sure that never happens again.

I thought Nazism is what happened when a European power defeated in the first World war and hit with massive reparations and an economic collapse allows populist Nationalist Utopians with a chip on their shoulder about International Jewry and a strange belief in the manifest destiny of a mythic version of their people to become powerful, through a political process which was a shambles.

[piscator]

On a one to one basis the German army was more effective in combat than anyone else it fought, British, Russian Americans etc.

Tell that to Alvin York. Or Audie Murphy, or Vasily Zaitsev, Simo Hayha, or Lyudmila Pavlichenko for that matter...

I bet you were taught that Montgomery was the best darn general in WWII, right?

Strangely enough the most effective armies after the Nazism were the Soviets and the Japanese. Obviously the western value for individual life (even the enemies) makes war a lot harder

What do you base this on, the number of civilians killed?

I was right. You're a fine product of a fine education system. Remember: Keep China British!

[Seth]

You atre so hung up on the need to own your own lethal toys that you cannot see that such ownership by private individuals is totally unnecessary.

Until it is.

That's why it's not a "Bill of Needs" it's a "Bill of Rights."

When I was about twelve years old I collected stamps. There was a philatelic club in my town that had meetings every other Tuesday evening. In order to save money it booked a room of a restaurant in a village quite a few kilometres away, but there was no problem to get to it by train. One day, while travelling to one of those meetings I noticed a man taking some powder out of a tin and sprinkling it out of the window. I asked him what he was doing. He explained that the the stuff he spread out into the countryside is anti-tiger powder. "But, there are no tigers roaming about within thousands of kilometres of us." I noted. "See," he replied, "it's working already."

Tell me what happens when a tiger escapes from a circus in the village, then we can judge whether or not he was acting wisely.

Funny, you should ask. That is precisely what happened in my town a year or two later. Someone tied a bone to a stick and lured the tiger back into its cage.

And if that hadn't worked? What then? Suppose the tiger took to wandering around the halls of the local elementary school looking for a snack? Where's your firearm? Who's going to protect those poor little tykes until the armed special flying squad gets its act together and drives to the location...just in time to start picking up body parts just like the police did for Brevik.

C'mon, there's NO TIME! That hungry tiger is staring directly at YOUR young daughter as she stands trembling in the corner of the classroom. Whatcha gonna do? Whoya gonna call? If I were you I'd be calling the local mortuary.

If I were me, and I am, I'd be advancing on the tiger firing every round in the mag and then reloading and firing the rest until it stopped moving...hopefully before it eats your daughter.

What are YOU going to do besides weeping and wringing your hands?

[Hermit]

That hungry tiger is staring directly at YOUR young daughter as she stands trembling in the corner of the classroom. Whatcha gonna do?

There's no need to do anything. What usually happens, is for an advertisement break to appear. After that the fantasy continues in its predictable way: Just as the tiger sits down and starts purring or licks its arse, some cowboy libertarian named Walter Mitty swaggers in, shoots at it, misses, and accidentally kills the girl instead. The End.