Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

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Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:04 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23721918
On the streets of Cairo it's not just a fledgling democracy that lies in ruin. US policy too lies in tatters - in the eyes of many - or at least America's reputation and credibility.

Since the ouster of Hosni Mubarak in 2011, the US has struggled to strike a balance between support for the tenuous progress towards democracy and protection of its national security interests.

The White House has tried hard to work with whoever is in power in Egypt but has ended up with no friends and little influence in Cairo.

Washington's recent diplomatic efforts in Egypt have failed one after the other. Up until his removal from power, the US tried to counsel Mr Morsi to accept a compromise with the army and the protesters.

The US also appealed to the military not to remove Mr Morsi. After the coup, Deputy Secretary of State Bill Burns travelled to Cairo twice to help mediate between the military and the Muslim Brotherhood. But even getting an audience in Cairo these days is a hard task for US officials.

The US refrained from calling Mr Morsi's removal a coup for fear of upsetting the country's generals and the millions who demanded Mr Morsi's departure.

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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by cronus » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:21 pm

Lacking leverage in a major Middle East crisis is not quite a absence of credibility but shows a decline in influence now we are moving beyond the age of the hyperpower and towards a multi-polar political worldmap.
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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:24 pm

Hmmm. With things like this, Snowden, etc etc it does look like the USA is not getting its way in international affairs to quite the same degree as it has been used to. Or could be that both sides in Egypt are crackers and aren't going to listen to anyone.

I do wonder how bad it has to get before the US suspends military aid to Egypt.
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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by cronus » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:26 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:Hmmm. With things like this, Snowden, etc etc it does look like the USA is not getting its way in international affairs to quite the same degree as it has been used to. Or could be that both sides in Egypt are crackers and aren't going to listen to anyone.

I do wonder how bad it has to get before the US suspends military aid to Egypt.
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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by laklak » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:43 pm

O'bammy is going to out-Carter Jimmy Carter. "Arab Spring" my shit-smeared ass.
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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:50 pm

I can't help thinking it would make eminent sense for the US to withdraw, to a degree, from every trouble spot on the globe. They either seem to make things worse, or they suffer blowback. I don't think the US should be isolationist, but perhaps it's time to accept that a lot of the fiddling has backfired.
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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by Warren Dew » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:12 am

Clinton Huxley wrote:I do wonder how bad it has to get before the US suspends military aid to Egypt.
The military aid is the price the U.S. pays for Egypt to control their border with Gaza. Pull it, and Iranian made missiles will be raining down on Tel Aviv in numbers that will make Iron Dome look like a sieve.

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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by Collector1337 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:29 am

How come we never talk about the credibility or international standing of the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, or whatever other first world countries that are so great?
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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by piscator » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:37 am

Collector1337 wrote:How come we never talk about the credibility or international standing of the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, or whatever other first world countries that are so great?

Because it's been patently obvious they can't pour piss out of a boot since before Dunkirk. They end up calling us to wipe their asses anyway. :fp:

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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by Ian » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:44 am

None of them are involved in the Camp David Accords. For all that treaty's drawbacks (i.e. the US giving foreign aid to Egypt ever since), it is a treaty that has worked for thirty five years.

Also, since some people are so inclined to point out that the US has helped aid whomever has legally been in power in Egypt over the last few decades, are they also inclined to gripe at Russia over the source of most of the military equipment that the Egyptian Army is using? Nobody bothers seriously bitching about Russian foreign policies nowadays, including over Syria. Lately it's just about griping over their anti-gay laws. There seems to be an air of resignation about Russian foreign policy, so it rarely even gets mentioned.

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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:02 am

Collector1337 wrote:How come we never talk about the credibility or international standing of the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, or whatever other first world countries that are so great?
Because the US's influence is greater than all those combined.
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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:06 am

Ian wrote:There seems to be an air of resignation about Russian foreign policy, so it rarely even gets mentioned.
I think that's the key point. Russians don't pretend they are on about higher ideals or some other bollocks like the US does. The Russians are pretty open about their foreign policy objectives. The US is always trying to sell it in terms of "freedom" or "democracy" or some other bollocks. I understand that in more democratic countries like the US (compared with Russia) there's a different internal dynamic that has to come into play. The problem for the US is that in these days of social media and the internet, more and more people are seeing through the rhetoric and question why are they constantly being lied to. It's leading to distrust and disaffection.
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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by Ian » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:12 am

It's not a lie, it's an exaggeration. The kernel of truth is very much there. But it's a two-way street: others around the world expect the US to behave as if bound by some ideological constraints. Nobody expects Brazil to behave towards China or Saudi Arabia or India or Russia in any manner other than whatever happens to be in Brazil's best interests. For the US, people want to think that other standards should apply. Then they talk about distrust and disaffection.

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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:21 am

I'm not just talking about other people around the world. I'm also talking about people within the US.

As a general point, the reason why many of us non-USians take a position on the US is that the US has incredible influence over our own lives. Interestingly, Australia is pretty much more American than British, and that's saying something given our UK heritage here.

Essentially, the old line about great reponsibility flows from great power applies here. The US is the sole superpower. They can act one of two general ways: 1. Don't give a fig about anyone else; or 2. Act more responsibly with that power. As a general rule, I think more and more people are feeling it is a case of 1 and not 2. That sucks for the rest of us, but if you think about it rationally, it's not the best tack for the US to take into the future. It's not unreasonable to think that at some point in the future, the US won't be the top dog any more. The US can set the standard of how an exceedingly dominant superpower should act. If they choose number 1, then it portends bad for their own future if the next US acts like that towards them (and us).

eta: the bit about "lying" wasn't just related to the freedom/democracy canard. It was also related to the increasing state authoritarianism that seems to be occurring in the US (as well as many other western countries).
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Re: Is the United States' Credibility in Tatters?

Post by Jason » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:29 am

The United States' credibility? Your foreign policy is suspect at the best of times.

@Ian: And yet you set yourselves up as the force for good (it's in your Navy's recruiting material and broadcast on television networks) in the world? Whose good then? From your post, I assume yours. You're amazed that the rest of the world views the US with suspicion? Your propaganda works too well.

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