Brilliant NHS

[mistermack]

That's a really naiive list. You only have their word for it that ANY of it was seriously proposed.
It's so easy for both parties to get together, agree that the Tories should propose this or that, and then let the Liberals veto it.

It makes life easier for the leading Tories, who can say to their backbenchers," look, we've tried to put right-wing stuff through, but the Liberals blocked it."
And the Liberals can say, " Look how we've tamed the Tories ".

It suits both parties, and if you can't see that, you're wearing blinkers.

And all of those so-called vetoes could have equally been deployed, if the Liberals were in opposition.
In truth, it was all for show. But obviously, somebody bought it.

[Strontium Dog]

All used by the Tories as bargaining positions, allowing them to give up some policies they really didn't care about, while getting away with :
- the bedroom tax (imagine Libdem outrage to that on the opposition benches?)

The bedroom tax, of course, being an invention of the Labour government for those on housing benefit renting from private landlords; the current government merely extended it to cover public landlords too. So while I have my own problems with the policy, forgive me if I don't join in with the synthetic leftist outrage over that one.

- the massive top-down reorganisation of the NHS in England (ditto above .. and Shirley Williams, hang your head in shame)

Which is nothing of the sort. Indeed, if only it was! The NHS needs massive reform.

- austerity economic policy, which lets face it Vince Cable does not agree with, but for his job & career prospect supports now

All three parties had "austerity" policies that were 90% similar, of course.

- energy policy, muddying the waters over green technologies causing investment to go elsewhere, where it's not made uncompetitive by underhand nuclear subsidies.

You seem to be ignoring the billions being pumped into the Green Investment Bank (another Lib Dem manifesto policy, successfully enacted).

And lets face it. Those polices shit all over the ones you listed in terms of importance, both to the country and to the Tories.

So you claim, without basis.

The Libdems have been utterly exploited (let themselves, really). They take the flack for the hideous policies, AND they got royally fucked over their one real demand: AV.

Parties exist to get their policies implemented. There's no future in being the kind of toothless protest vehicle that some people (generally not natural liberals, natch) want us to be.

That's a really naiive list. You only have their word for it that ANY of it was seriously proposed.
It's so easy for both parties to get together, agree that the Tories should propose this or that, and then let the Liberals veto it.

They were all serious proposals; some of which required embarrassing u-turns from Tory ministers and/or their fellow travellers.

It makes life easier for the leading Tories, who can say to their backbenchers," look, we've tried to put right-wing stuff through, but the Liberals blocked it."
And the Liberals can say, " Look how we've tamed the Tories ".

It suits both parties, and if you can't see that, you're wearing blinkers.

It's the reality of the situation. The blinkers exist, but they are on those who deny reality.

And all of those so-called vetoes could have equally been deployed, if the Liberals were in opposition.
In truth, it was all for show. But obviously, somebody bought it.

Baseless.

[Seth]

Got this email from my sister today :

We are all very relieved that baby Elliott has been discharged from hospital.

The strain of meningitis he suffered from was entero viral, which thankfully is the less serious strain and hopefully he should make a complete recovery.

The hospital were brilliant and had done a lumbar puncture and started antiviral medication within 40 mins of him arriving at their walk in centre with a high temperature.

Speaks for itself really.
Note the complete lack of references to cost or insurance. THAT is civilisation for you.

That's socialistic cognitive dissonance for you. Don't mention it and it must not exist.

Kid would have gotten better treatment just as quickly or more so in any ER in the US, and for the same "cost" if they couldn't afford to pay.

[Seth]

Question: where IS the "save the NHS" party? Should be a shoe-in. So why is noone doing it?

They probably ran out of OPM...

[Seth]

One of the main reasons that they are privatising parts of the Health Service isn't to do with efficiency at all. Although that's how they sell it.

It's really to diminish the power of the unions. A fully NATIONAL health service, with one employer, and just one or two unions, would be vulnerable to co-ordinated union action. When it's broken up into little bits, it might be far less efficient, but it's less vulnerable to a national action by unions.

Obviously, the union threat has to be sorted out, but breaking everything up into trusts, and little sections, is a ridiculous way to do it.

I would pass a series of laws banning industrial action that affects the caring professions. And prescribe severe penalties on unions and individuals who organise in the face of those laws. Lots of private companies have no-strike deals, and I can't see anything wrong with making it legally binding for the NHS. I would include, cleaners, ambulance drivers, electricians, anyone who's work affects the NHS.

It's simpler than that, just ban public worker unions. No person getting paid by the public should have a "right" to unionize, they work at the pleasure of the people.

Even FDR, America's Stalin, got that right:

"... Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations ... The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for ... officials ... to bind the employer ... The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives ...

"Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people ... This obligation is paramount ... A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent ... to prevent or obstruct ... Government ... Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government ... is unthinkable and intolerable."

[ronmcd]

The bedroom tax, of course, being an invention of the Labour government for those on housing benefit renting from private landlords; the current government merely extended it to cover public landlords too. So while I have my own problems with the policy, forgive me if I don't join in with the synthetic leftist outrage over that one.

Absolutely, and Labour disgust me for refusing to say they would revoke the policy, as their members and supporters would expect.

Which is nothing of the sort. Indeed, if only it was! The NHS needs massive reform.

Ironic really, that the Tories claim it is a massive reform. Which it is. Of course it was always the plan for the Tories, from pre 2010, to start to dismantle the NHS and farm out as much as possible to the private sector. What will be left "provisioned" by the NHS hospitals will be unsustainable, with the profitable bits run by Virgin and the rest of the healthcare companies who have bought MP's. I'm glad I live in Scotland.

All three parties had "austerity" policies that were 90% similar, of course.

Well, that 10% is rather important, no? It's that 10% difference that would have made the difference in terms of investing in, rather than killing the economy. And again ... you think Vince Cable would have advocated the economic policies that George "Jeffrey" Osbourne pursued in 2010? The man's incompetent.

You seem to be ignoring the billions being pumped into the Green Investment Bank (another Lib Dem manifesto policy, successfully enacted).

And? The point is the industry are saying give us certainty about the energy policies and prices, or we can't invest. You wont get the companies moving into cutting edge new technologies when they can get a nice juicy guaranteed profit from new nuclear, with other countries offering the certainty they need elsewhere. UK is supposed to be a leading on and offshore wind producer, we are told. Companies WANT to invest in building the turbines in UK. They wont, because of the govt. So the turbines, and the employees, are shipped in from Europe.

It's a fucking disgrace. Lets face it, there was a reason that Tory anti-green energy MP was parachuted in as a minister a year or two ago. To disrupt and control the Libdem energy secretary. It worked.

Parties exist to get their policies implemented. There's no future in being the kind of toothless protest vehicle that some people (generally not natural liberals, natch) want us to be.

Parties don't exist to be lapdogs and human shields, who come the next election will be utterly unelectable. No matter how badly Gideon fucks up, the Tories will emerge unscathed. The libdems ... no ordinary voter will trust them. I hope.

[ronmcd]

The coalition has fucked us all. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23655605

Wages in the UK have seen one of the largest falls in the European Union during the economic downturn, according to official figures.

The figures, which were requested by the Labour Party and collated by the House of Commons library, show average hourly wages have fallen 5.5% since mid-2010, adjusted for inflation.

That is the fourth-worst decline among the 27 EU nations .

By contrast, German hourly wages rose by 2.7% over the same period.

Across the European Union as a whole, average wages fell 0.7%.

Only Greek, Portuguese and Dutch workers have had a steeper decline in hourly wages, the figures showed.

[mistermack]

Ain't it funny, how real wages have dropped, but house prices have still gone up?
And the chancellor is pushing and pushing them ever higher, with his " help " for mortgages, underpinned by taxpayers who were never asked.

This country is fucked, until they get off this obsession with keeping house prices rising. They are fucking up the country, just to get elected. It doesn't affect me, but it's a nightmare for any young people who haven't got rich obliging parents.

[ronmcd]

Groups on the left have been concerned that Labour will swing further towards the centre in this climate.

In a letter published in Tuesday's Guardian, the film director Ken Loach has been joined by other prominent figures including the former children's laureate Michael Rosen and the Only Fools and Horses actor Roger Lloyd-Pack to call for a new party of the left.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... confidence

A new party of the left, good idea. But more accurately having any party of the left at Westminister would be something.

[Rum]

Ain't it funny, how real wages have dropped, but house prices have still gone up?
And the chancellor is pushing and pushing them ever higher, with his " help " for mortgages, underpinned by taxpayers who were never asked.

This country is fucked, until they get off this obsession with keeping house prices rising. They are fucking up the country, just to get elected. It doesn't affect me, but it's a nightmare for any young people who haven't got rich obliging parents.

Ah - but it is the middle class (and thus more house owners) who tend to vote! That's politiks for you.

[MrJonno]

House prices are only expensive because those who own them do everything in their power to ensure new ones arent built. They are in a (small) majority and unfortunately democracy is the best system of government ever invented even through it can be a bit crap at times

[Collector1337]

Got this email from my sister today :

We are all very relieved that baby Elliott has been discharged from hospital.

The strain of meningitis he suffered from was entero viral, which thankfully is the less serious strain and hopefully he should make a complete recovery.

The hospital were brilliant and had done a lumbar puncture and started antiviral medication within 40 mins of him arriving at their walk in centre with a high temperature.

Speaks for itself really.
Note the complete lack of references to cost or insurance. THAT is civilisation for you.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Clinton Huxley]

I've had the Mini Huxley's into the local hospital on a number of occassions and, by some fluke, the broken clock was on the right time, every time. What are the odds, eh?

[Woodbutcher]

Americans do not really get proper information for foreign healthcare systems. It's always filtered through a biased newsmedia with their own agenda...Fox is sort of like North Korean news...

[Rum]

Americans do not really get proper information for foreign healthcare systems. It's always filtered through a biased newsmedia with their own agenda...Fox is sort of like North Korean news...

I have noticed this phenomenon too. All my family have had cause to use the NHS, a number of them for serious life threatening illnesses or conditions. These include my daughter, my father, my father in law and myself. All of them without exception have praised the treatment, the conditions, the manner of the doctors and nurses (nurses in particular) and of course the outcomes, where appropriate.

Of course things go wrong - it is a huge organisation dealing with millions of people - but they have not with any of us so far.

And yet the media stories one hears about emanating from the USA about our system seem to insist it is on its last legs and about to collapse.