Man 'too fat' to live in New Zealand

[Seth]

You may not like the way they adapt. Traditionally, the people in society who cannot hold down a job will collect welfare or turn to crime. Personally, I would prefer my taxes pay welfare. It is a lot cheaper!

Well, you're free to do so. You're not free to use the Mace of State to force me to do so.

[mistermack]

What part of "exterminate themselves" did you fail to understand?

It's pure evolution. Cut off their goodies and they will either adapt or die. If they adapt, they are no longer part of the dependent class. If they die, well, that's their own fault now isn't it?

That's nothing to do with Hitler.

So you still lose.

So that's your final solution, is it?
Luckily for everybody, you're not as convincing as Hitler.

You're actually not as convincing as the guy who walks around Gloucester centre, shouting. And at least HE'S entertaining.

[mistermack]

You may not like the way they adapt. Traditionally, the people in society who cannot hold down a job will collect welfare or turn to crime. Personally, I would prefer my taxes pay welfare. It is a lot cheaper!

Well, you're free to do so. You're not free to use the Mace of State to force me to do so.

The government is free to do exactly that.

[Seth]

You may not like the way they adapt. Traditionally, the people in society who cannot hold down a job will collect welfare or turn to crime. Personally, I would prefer my taxes pay welfare. It is a lot cheaper!

Well, you're free to do so. You're not free to use the Mace of State to force me to do so.

The government is free to do exactly that.

Actually, it's not. It CAN do that, sometimes, but it's not "free" to do anything so long as anyone has the means to resist.

[mistermack]

Actually, it's not. It CAN do that, sometimes, but it's not "free" to do anything so long as anyone has the means to resist.

I think you're confusing "resist" with "prevent".
It's free to do it, because you can resist them doing it, but you can't prevent them from doing it. An ant can resist an anteater, but it still gets eaten.

And of course, away from the dreams and in the real world, nobody IS resisting. Because Americans keep telling the world,
WE LOVE DEMOCRACEEEEEEEEEEEEE, and you should try to be just like us.

[Seth]

Actually, it's not. It CAN do that, sometimes, but it's not "free" to do anything so long as anyone has the means to resist.

I think you're confusing "resist" with "prevent".
It's free to do it, because you can resist them doing it, but you can't prevent them from doing it. An ant can resist an anteater, but it still gets eaten.

Depends on how you define "free to." In my lexicon, when applied to government, that means that it has moral and ethical license to do so. My government has neither when it comes to Obamacare.

Whether I can resist "successfully" depends on how you define success. In this case I define success as the act of resisting that costs the tyrant more than he gains by trying to force my compliance. In this case it comes down to how many minions the tyrant is willing to sacrifice in order to try to collect the couple of hundred bucks he wants to fine me for not buying into his socialist agenda. If I can make it very, very expensive by way of minion revision then that's a success, even if I end up revised myself.

As the "Hunger Games" points out, every revolution starts with one person. Maybe I'll be that person, maybe not.

But give me liberty or give me death.

I know that honor, loyalty, courage, fortitude, ethics and a willingness to sacrifice for a righteous cause is foreign to such as you, but I'm not really talking to you to begin with, you're a lost cause. I'm talking to the credulous lurkers who might buy your proletarian Marxist propaganda of helplessness and surrender to the inevitable. If even one of them is persuaded to reject your indoctrination, that's a success as well.

[Blind groper]

Seth

To be successful in any resistance, you also need to suck in enough others to follow your agenda. I have enough faith in the basic intelligence of Americans to believe you will fail.

[Seth]

Seth

To be successful in any resistance, you also need to suck in enough others to follow your agenda. I have enough faith in the basic intelligence of Americans to believe you will fail.

Then why are you so worried about the half or more that own guns?

[Blind groper]

You mean the less than one third who own guns? The other two thirds are the smart Americans.

[Seth]

You mean the less than one third who own guns? The other two thirds are the smart Americans.

Depends on who you ask. Last credible figure I saw was 45% of households had guns in them.

As for who's the smart ones, they are the ones who survive.

[Blind groper]

As for who's the smart ones, they are the ones who survive.

Average life span in the USA = 78 years. So the majority must be smart.

Of course NZ has 80 years. Does this mean New Zealanders are smarter than Americans?

[Cormac]

What horrific anecdotes could you find, if you were bothered, by visiting some of the FIFTY MILLION people in the US who have no medical cover?

Since Seth actually is one of those people, I suspect he knows a lot more about their motivations and attitudes than you do.

Except that it hasn't gone wrong yet. I posted earlier that I have a cousin in the US who had good quality health cover through his job. He got sick, and couldn't work, and eventually the cover disappeared. His care and treatment is now being paid for in cash by the family. He's lucky that there were ten kids in that family.

Gosh, how sad. And how uplifting that he has a family that is VOLUNTARILY choosing to burden themselves in order to care for him and extend his life. That's exactly how it's supposed to work. I have a friend who had tongue cancer and within days of sending out a plea for donations through his Catholic church his surgery and chemo and other medical needs were paid for through the altruism, charity, love and enlightened self-interest of those who know and value him.

So just because Seth chose not to have insurance, that doesn't mean he know's it all.

Never said I did. I just know that Marxism never, ever, ever works.

Seth has taken a gamble. So far, he's winning. What the fuck does that prove? Health cover is for when you get sick, not for when you are healthy.

Yes, I am. Life is a gamble. I learned that at 21 when I was run over by a drunk driver.

His lack of cover shows that he thinks it's not worth having. Too expensive for what you get. Which rather points to the system being shit, as I pointed out.

It is too expensive. I pay for my medical care a la carte. I would pay well over $3500 per year in "insurance" premiums because I have "pre-existing conditions" that threaten to cost a lot of money to treat. I pay less than $1500 per year for my annual checkup and maintenance medications. And if I need other medical care I have prudently put away more than $100,000 in a medical savings account to deal with other things. If that's not enough, well, I'll do without. What I won't do is enslave and steal from others just to selfishly preserve and extend my own life. That's criminal.

Of course you have no ethics so you have no problem enslaving others and stealing from them for your personal needs, so I don't expect you to understand that to some people, dignity and honesty and obedience to ethical behavior are of paramount importance.

You're just a selfish, greedy dependent-class drone who thinks he's entitled to OPM.

You aren't.

Seth, just on the fund you've put aside - I presume you're aware that if you get seriously I'll, that 100k will be torched in an instant.

[mistermack]

Seth, just on the fund you've put aside - I presume you're aware that if you get seriously I'll, that 100k will be torched in an instant.

It's actually much worse than that. As my cousins' example shows, it doesn't need to be you yourself who gets ill and has no cover. You're also fucked if one of your nearest and dearest falls foul of Americas shitty system.
My healthy cousins are paying cash for the care of the sick one.
You only need a daughter, sister, brother, or any other loved one to get seriously sick without cover, and you're faced with either telling them to fuck off and watch them suffer, or dipping into your own pot.
I hope that Seth doesn't get to face that dilemma.

I on the other hand, am fully covered, as are all of my family, no matter what their financial circumstances.
No matter who gets sick, no matter whether they have to give up work, they are all covered with a cover that DOESN'T run out.

Ain't the NHS wonderful?

[Seth]

Seth, just on the fund you've put aside - I presume you're aware that if you get seriously I'll, that 100k will be torched in an instant.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe I'll invest in a catastrophic health care policy that kicks in at $75,000. But that's MY decision to make, not yours or anybody else's

Sometimes you die.

[Seth]

Seth, just on the fund you've put aside - I presume you're aware that if you get seriously I'll, that 100k will be torched in an instant.

It's actually much worse than that. As my cousins' example shows, it doesn't need to be you yourself who gets ill and has no cover. You're also fucked if one of your nearest and dearest falls foul of Americas shitty system.
My healthy cousins are paying cash for the care of the sick one.

They are paying cash because they CHOOSE to do so, not because anybody's forcing them to do so. Big difference.

You only need a daughter, sister, brother, or any other loved one to get seriously sick without cover, and you're faced with either telling them to fuck off and watch them suffer, or dipping into your own pot.

Yup, that's true. But that fact doesn't justify using the Mace of State to force ME to pay for YOUR health care issues.

If I have financial responsibility for a family member, I've undertaken that risk voluntarily and it behooves me to plan wisely for that eventuality. If I fail to plan wisely, then yes, I may be bankrupted by medical costs. But we don't have debtors prisons anymore, and bankruptcy is not the worst thing that can happen to a person by any stretch of the imagination.

But you've yet to articulate any reason whatsoever why I should be required to pony up for YOUR health care, or anyone else's whom I do not know and have not voluntarily accepted financial responsibility for. You dodge the issue by tossing up red herrings and straw men.

I hope that Seth doesn't get to face that dilemma.

I do too. But if I do I won't resort to stealing from other people to solve my problem.

I on the other hand, am fully covered, as are all of my family, no matter what their financial circumstances.

Well, I'm sure you'd like to think so, but the reality is that you aren't "fully covered," not by a long-shot and your coverage is already evaporating as the system becomes overloaded and the costs continue to soar. You're lucky right now that there's still some OPM in the system, but when that runs out, you, and everybody else in the NHS is going to be completely and totally fucked because you placed your trust in government, which is an idiotic thing for anyone, anywhere to do.

No matter who gets sick, no matter whether they have to give up work, they are all covered with a cover that DOESN'T run out.

The fuck it doesn't.

Ain't the NHS wonderful?

Nope, it's a fool's paradise.