Man 'too fat' to live in New Zealand

[Coito ergo sum]

Hang on, the Fair and Decent everyone is equal social democratic paradise of New Zealand is discriminating against somebody because he's FAT? Say it ain't so, Joe!

Or better still, claim that's it's perfectly reasonable when NZ does it.

Yes. And it's perfectly fair. He's not just fat, he's foreign. They have no obligation to let him stay.

He was fatter when they let him in.

It's nice to see folks granting NZ the right to exclude anybody they want. Here in the US, when a proposal was made to allow law enforcement to verify if a person stopped for suspected legal infraction was a lawfully in the country - that measure was portrayed as a gross violation of human rights and racism.

If he's likely to be a burden on the state, they have the right to not renew his work permit.
And he is highly likely to make claims on the health service, as he is obese.

But morally, having let him stay five years, I would say that they ought to give him a chance to lose the weight, before showing him the door.

Especially because he has already lost weight since he entered the country.

[mistermack]

Just watching a health program on channel 4, and they just said that type 2 diabetes accounts for ten percent of the spending on drugs and care in the UK.
TEN PERCENT !! No wonder NZ wants the fat fucker out.

As far as socialised medicine goes, if the cost in the US is double comparable countries like the UK, and even at that, millions have no cover, then the US system is total shit.
Twice as much is twice as much. Inconvenient facts can't be wiped with bullshit.

[Coito ergo sum]

Just watching a health program on channel 4, and they just said that type 2 diabetes accounts for ten percent of the spending on drugs and care in the UK.
TEN PERCENT !! No wonder NZ wants the fat fucker out.

As far as socialised medicine goes, if the cost in the US is double comparable countries like the UK, and even at that, millions have no cover, then the US system is total shit.
Twice as much is twice as much. Inconvenient facts can't be wiped with bullshit.

You simply have an incorrect understanding of health care in the US. You really don't know what you're talking about.

The cost estimates that are published are generally not comparing apples to apples, and government run systems generally exclude certain costs that are generally attributed to private companies.

[mistermack]

Twice as much is twice as much. Inconvenient facts can't be wiped with bullshit.

The United States life expectancy of 78.4 years at birth, up from 75.2 years in 1990, ranks it 50th among 221 nations, and 27th out of the 34 industrialized OECD countries, down from 20th in 1990.[1][2] Of 17 high-income countries studied by the National Institutes of Health in 2013, the United States had the highest or near-highest prevalence of infant mortality, heart and lung disease, sexually transmitted infections, adolescent pregnancies, injuries, homicides, and disability. Together, such issues place the U.S. at the bottom of the list for life expectancy.

[Coito ergo sum]

Twice as much is twice as much. Inconvenient facts can't be wiped with bullshit.

The United States life expectancy of 78.4 years at birth, up from 75.2 years in 1990, ranks it 50th among 221 nations, and 27th out of the 34 industrialized OECD countries, down from 20th in 1990.[1][2] Of 17 high-income countries studied by the National Institutes of Health in 2013, the United States had the highest or near-highest prevalence of infant mortality, heart and lung disease, sexually transmitted infections, adolescent pregnancies, injuries, homicides, and disability. Together, such issues place the U.S. at the bottom of the list for life expectancy.

While those are important numbers, they are not a measure of the effectiveness of the medical care system, per se. Many other factors, such as the high obesity rate in the US, the poor American diet and aspects of certain subculture's lifestyles in the US have a large impact on life expectancy. The leading causes of death in the US before age 50 include car accidents, gun violence and drug overdoses. These things, not the effectiveness of health care, cut short life expectancy.

The lists here put the US at about 33 on the list of life expectancy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy

What you'll find in the studies comparing health system is a preference toward "equality," and health care systems that have equality, even if they are overall worse deliverers of health care, are given higher marks by the mere appearance of equality across the board. I.e. equally poor health care is typically rated as a good quality.

[Warren Dew]

Just watching a health program on channel 4, and they just said that type 2 diabetes accounts for ten percent of the spending on drugs and care in the UK.
TEN PERCENT !! No wonder NZ wants the fat fucker out.

As far as socialised medicine goes, if the cost in the US is double comparable countries like the UK, and even at that, millions have no cover, then the US system is total shit.
Twice as much is twice as much. Inconvenient facts can't be wiped with bullshit.

I'm willing to pay twice as much for a health care system that doesn't purposely deny me food and water to make me die faster.

[mistermack]

Just watching a health program on channel 4, and they just said that type 2 diabetes accounts for ten percent of the spending on drugs and care in the UK.
TEN PERCENT !! No wonder NZ wants the fat fucker out.

As far as socialised medicine goes, if the cost in the US is double comparable countries like the UK, and even at that, millions have no cover, then the US system is total shit.
Twice as much is twice as much. Inconvenient facts can't be wiped with bullshit.

I'm willing to pay twice as much for a health care system that doesn't purposely deny me food and water to make me die faster.

Die slower then. Have fun with that.

[Hermit]

They admitted him to the country and have been doing so for decades. For them to now suddenly decide he's not welcome is a violation of the contract they made with him by admitting him.

They admitted him on a temporary work visa. The chef knew it was temporary, and he knew it was at the government's discretion whether it would renew the visa for another year, or not before he even decided to come to New Zealand in 2007. Where is the breach of contract?

[Seth]

Just watching a health program on channel 4, and they just said that type 2 diabetes accounts for ten percent of the spending on drugs and care in the UK.
TEN PERCENT !! No wonder NZ wants the fat fucker out.

Well, if the fat fucker can pay for his own drugs and care, what's it to you or the government?

As far as socialised medicine goes, if the cost in the US is double comparable countries like the UK, and even at that, millions have no cover, then the US system is total shit.
Twice as much is twice as much. Inconvenient facts can't be wiped with bullshit.

Twice as much for the most excellent healthcare on the planet bar none when you want it, when you need it, where you need it and without some fucking bureaucrat telling you they can't afford to care for you.

I'll take that over incompetent government doctors and nurses (who let old people drink out of flowerpots), rationed and unavailable care and some fuckwit telling me to go home and die because the government can't afford to fix me.

Half of nothing is nothing. I'll pay twice the price for service at my command, commensurate with my ability to pay for it.

[Seth]

The leading causes of death in the US before age 50 include car accidents, gun violence and drug overdoses.

What? Gun violence and drug overdoses? Where did you get that?

Guns and drugs don't even make the top 10. Guns don't even make the top 99 according to the CDC.

Accidental firearms deaths come in at #100

Suicide by gun comes in at #105

Homicides by gun comes in at #107

What you'll find in the studies comparing health system is a preference toward "equality," and health care systems that have equality, even if they are overall worse deliverers of health care, are given higher marks by the mere appearance of equality across the board. I.e. equally poor health care is typically rated as a good quality.

That's exactly why the "ratings" are political bullshit. They mark any socialist socialized medicine system highly even if it provides shitty care, and they downrate the US simply because it does not have socialized medicine.

As far as medical care itself is concerned, it doesn't get any better than the US, anywhere on earth, which is why the leaders of Socialist countries like France come to the US for their medical care.

[Warren Dew]

The leading causes of death in the US before age 50 include car accidents, gun violence and drug overdoses.

What? Gun violence and drug overdoses? Where did you get that?

Guns and drugs don't even make the top 10. Guns don't even make the top 99 according to the CDC.

Accidental firearms deaths come in at #100

Suicide by gun comes in at #105

Homicides by gun comes in at #107

Are you looking at a table for those under age 50? Homicides and suicides are pretty high for the young adult age ranges, and I suspect most of those use firearms in the U.S.

Although, I would say the high rate of obesity due to unhealthy governmental dietary recommendations is much more of a limitation on U.S. life expectancy than those factors.

[Blind groper]

To Seth

The New Scientist article I quoted was 13 July 2013, and written by Dr. Lauden Aron, a senior research associate with the Urban Institute in Washington DC. While I am not expert on this topic, Dr. Aron is.

Is first paragraph says : " Americans die younger and experience more injury and illness than people in other rich countries, despite spending almost twice as much per person on healthcare."

Further on its describes the USA as having higher infant mortality, teen pregnancy, traffic fatalities, and heart disease. It even says : " Even those with health insurance, college educations, and healthy lifestylesappear to be sicker than their counterparts in other wealthy countries."

Premature births are higher than the comparison countries and are closer to sub-Saharan Africa.

It goes on to say that the USA lags behind other wealthy countries in many measures of education, higher child poverty, more income inequality, and lower social mobility.

Dr. Aron says that one of the major impediments to improving things is the resistance in the USA of anything smacking of socialism. He compares the USA unfavourably with Sweden, a very 'socialist' nation with much better employment, housing, education, health, and social insurance.

Despite all this, the USA spends twice as much per capita on health compared to other wealthy nations, and the results are poor.

I should add that Dr. Aron was discussing the results of a major report by the US National Research Council and the Institute of Medicine, so it is not his personal view.

[laklak]

Of course you'll have better health outcomes, you kick out all the sick ones.

[PsychoSerenity]

Of course you'll have better health outcomes, you kick out all the sick ones.

Do you think the percentage of people being denied temporary work visas on health grounds is significant?

[Coito ergo sum]

Just watching a health program on channel 4, and they just said that type 2 diabetes accounts for ten percent of the spending on drugs and care in the UK.
TEN PERCENT !! No wonder NZ wants the fat fucker out.

As far as socialised medicine goes, if the cost in the US is double comparable countries like the UK, and even at that, millions have no cover, then the US system is total shit.
Twice as much is twice as much. Inconvenient facts can't be wiped with bullshit.

I'm willing to pay twice as much for a health care system that doesn't purposely deny me food and water to make me die faster.

This "twice as much" figure is contrived anyway. It's not based on real world costs. The nationalized health systems don't have to count certain costs as part of their costs which are actually counted as costs in a private health care system. They still exist, but they just move them to a different box.