Robert_S wrote:[quote="Seth"]It takes two to troll, you see. It takes a person to say something upsetting and provocative, but it also takes a weak mind incapable of self-control even to the extent of simply ignoring a message they find upsetting, and the person who is at fault in this duo is the idiot who can't control his index finger but must instead seek attention and approval for pointing a finger and shouting "Troll! Troll!" When someone says that, it's proof positive that they have run out of reason, ideas and temper and have lost the debate.
It's a sport. It takes two to troll and if someone is saying some shit merely to be provocative and someone else is rising to the bait, the regular guy just trying to have a civil discussion is going to blame them both.
And if there are 50 trollees and 5 trolls, which do you think are easier to get rid of? [/quote]
That's entirely beside the point. If I ran a website I'd ban the idiot whiners who can't control themselves or their emotions, but that's just me. The point is that there is one necessary and one optional component; the optional component is "troller", the necessary component is the "trolled", without whom it's completely impossible to troll.
Therefore, it's better for society to get rid of those intellectually inferior participants who are subject to being trolled so that the rational adults can exercise their right to speak freely than it is to quash all controversy merely because some mentally-deficient members can't control themselves. That's exactly why many of us are here as refugees from RatSkep. The dickheads over there decided that they value conformity of opinion and agreement to liberal doctrine over vigorous and contentious debate, so they kick out any irritating members who dare to use controversy as a tool for advancing debate and knowledge.
You troll. You've admitted you like to piss someone off 'till they lose it.
No, I have not. I don't piss people off simply to get them to lose their temper, I stand my ground and hold to my positions tenaciously and demand exacting, rigorous, accurate, rational, logical and well-reasoned arguments from my intellectual opponents and I do not hesitate for a second to unmercifully rip poor thinking to shreds. That happens to piss some people off because their egos are bigger than their intellects, but I'm doing what I do for the exact opposite reason you claim. I do what I do in order to
inform and educate, learn from others, and teach people how to debate by vigorously and uncompromisingly analyzing and rebutting the flaws in their thinking and arguments. For the most part I do so in excruciating detail, literally ripping a claim to shreds line-by-line, and this in and of itself pisses people off because they are intellectually lazy and don't want to be mentally challenged and actually have to think deeply about a subject.
What I do actually helps people to become better informed and become better debators, if they care to take advantage of my tutelage.
If I were what you consider to be a troll, I'd be making one-line insult posts like Gawdzilla and rEv. I think it's fair to say that I put a lot of effort into my replies, which may piss people off but which are hardly deliberately intended to piss people off. People get pissed off all on their own when their reason and logic are assailed and their ego threatened by someone they don't agree with. But that's their problem, not mine.
Then the rest of the forum has to deal with discussions going pear shaped. From your perspective you might look like the responsible law abiding one. But from where I sit, you're just another link in the chain. The decisive link in fact.
The reason you can skirt rules is because it's too much bother making and enforcing rules complex and/or subjective enough to deal with trolling consistently.
Non sequitur. How can I "skirt the rules" when there are no rules. That's the very best thing about this place, that the owner and Mods have decided to do the rational thing and let adults have conversations without playing nanny all the time. I'm extremely gratified to have been invited here, and I'm extremely happy that those in charge have decided not to oppress unpopular or controversial opinion merely because petty whiners don't like it.
It's a highly unusual thing that we do here, and I appreciate it.
If you don't like my opinions, then rebut them with some scholarship and rational thought or fuck off somewhere else.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
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