Texas Teen Jailed for Joke

[Robert_S]

The problem with Pappagate was that a lot of people jumped to conclusions and posted shit all over the interwebz (including here) without actually checking out what the fuck he wrote! Had they looked at the thread in question and the response to it on this site, anyone that is not an idiot would have been able to see that it was nothing more than a bad joke that fell flat on its face. End of!

BUT, having heard of it, it was reasonable for anyone to come here and have a look to see if there was any substance to the rumours flying about. That most didn't bother and simply engaged in primate poop-flinging speaks volumes about them.

The direct analogy is that it would have been reasonable for the law enforcement authorities, having been alerted to this guy's post, to make discrete enquiries and assure themselves that he wasn't planning another Sandy Hook and then leave it at that. Their total over-reaction just shows them up as incompetents and makes the law they are attempting to uphold into what it so often is known to resemble, an ass.

The first three or four posts were reposted around the net and people commented on it.

How much investigating would they have needed to do before drawing their conclusions? They complain about sexism. Some of their points seem perfectly valid while others not so much. But one of the things they complained about were rape threats from supposedly rational minded atheists. That was the outside context.

The inside context includes the Ratzian sense of humor, you kinda need to read a few threads in the pub (which isn't public) and know Pappa's attitudes and values (which takes some time) to get that. I'm not saying that joke was OK in that context, but it was more understandable. Just as looking at the other context doesn't make the smearing of the entire forum's name OK. but it does make it more understandable.

It might be reasonable to aproach the kid and say "Hey, that's really not appropriate"

This is the exact same issue that was at stake in Pappagate. The freedom to make bad jokes. The freedom to say what one wants. He wasn't yelling 'Fire' in a theatre - he was posting on a MMO game forum.

Thing is, with Pappagate, nobody got prosecuted. We can't really call foul when we had quite a few longish threads about Rebecca and the Skepchicks. Actually though, if someone would have logged in and said "Hey Ratzfolk, that's not really appropriate" then maybe things would have been pretty cool. But as it stands, we weren't deprived of our right to make bad jokes so much as others exercised their rights to raise a stink over it. It sucks for us, but rights is rights.

There is also a very real potential for joking being a plausible deniability tool for serious threats, as well as a potential for an innocent and seemingly obvious joke to be taken seriously if it bears enough resemblance to real threats and harassment.

To quote once again the unknown /b/tard: "We started out as educated people pretending to be ignorant sexist racists and ended up as ignorant sexist racists pretending to be educated."

[Jason]

There is also a very real potential for joking being a plausible deniability tool for serious threats, as well as a potential for an innocent and seemingly obvious joke to be taken seriously if it bears enough resemblance to real threats and harassment.

Yes it is real. As real as it ever has been in human history. It is not sufficient cause to curtail freespeech, nor even to bring charges against something, and much less to jail them.

[pErvinalia]

It would have been reasonable to check him out.

Absolutely not.

It might be reasonable to aproach the kid and say "Hey, that's really not appropriate"

I don't think it would be reasonable to say anything to him. If it was clear he didn't have a stash of guns and was planning to kill anyone, they should have dropped it. Locking someone up for joking on the internet is ridiculous. But this is the new world. The Brits have a dedicated police unit to trawl social media looking for offensive comments to charge people over. We are seeing a paranoid state realising it is the beginnings of the loss of authority and power, and they are fighting like bastards to keep it. They will fail, of course, as do all authoritarian states eventually.

I think it would be reasonable to check out that woman. I mean, really, an obviously joking comment. It's not phrased as a threat even if it was meant literally. I think she might be mentally unstable. I mean, she obsessed about it enough to track the guy down. I'm sorry to say, but that's kinda batty if you ask me. If the guy would have said "At such and such school I'm going to...." then it might be different.

The police have to follow formalities I guess, but the prosecutor needs to be sacked.

Filing a report that turns out to be nothing shouldn't be a prosecutable offense though, as long as there's no malicious intent.

In a normal world, I would expect the girl to get a warning for wasting police resources. But this apparently is a whacko world. Although, I have to wonder if there is more to this story that we don't know. It's hard to see even the famously bizarre US justice system fucking this one up so much.

[Robert_S]

There is also a very real potential for joking being a plausible deniability tool for serious threats, as well as a potential for an innocent and seemingly obvious joke to be taken seriously if it bears enough resemblance to real threats and harassment.

Yes it is real. As real as it ever has been in human history. It is not sufficient cause to curtail freespeech, nor even to bring charges against something, and much less to jail them.

In the Texas case yes. But in cases like extortion or blackmail, all you have to go on is speech. There's a danger of taking too many things seriously as well as too few.

[Audley Strange]

Well Well, looks like the shining beacon of liberty and freedom, is just another shitty country like all the others after all.

This is repugnant through and through. No one involved in it looks like anything less than an utter arsehole.

[Clinton Huxley]

The police were on a hiding to nothing. Don't react and the kid does do something and they'll be accused of ignoring a tip-off. And probably get their asses sued. The solution is to shut the Internet.

[pErvinalia]

Well it's getting the next best thing - heavy regulation and pervasive spying.

[Clinton Huxley]

Well it's getting the next best thing - heavy regulation and pervasive spying.

NSA and GCHQ have it sewn up. Morning, guys.

[Audley Strange]

The police were on a hiding to nothing. Don't react and the kid does do something and they'll be accused of ignoring a tip-off. And probably get their asses sued. The solution is to shut the Internet.

There is a world of difference between investigation and incarceration.

[Clinton Huxley]

The police were on a hiding to nothing. Don't react and the kid does do something and they'll be accused of ignoring a tip-off. And probably get their asses sued. The solution is to shut the Internet.

There is a world of difference between investigation and incarceration.

Of course there is. It's weird that they've kept him in prison but this is Texas. They love locking people up.

[Audley Strange]

The police were on a hiding to nothing. Don't react and the kid does do something and they'll be accused of ignoring a tip-off. And probably get their asses sued. The solution is to shut the Internet.

There is a world of difference between investigation and incarceration.

Of course there is. It's weird that they've kept him in prison but this is Texas. They love locking people up.

In b4 CES

I take your point but we have people in prison for less, Clinton.

[pErvinalia]

edit: ... unfair CES joke redacted ...

[Clinton Huxley]

The police were on a hiding to nothing. Don't react and the kid does do something and they'll be accused of ignoring a tip-off. And probably get their asses sued. The solution is to shut the Internet.

There is a world of difference between investigation and incarceration.

Of course there is. It's weird that they've kept him in prison but this is Texas. They love locking people up.

In b4 CES

I take your point but we have people in prison for less, Clinton.

Well, a comparison would be pointless. There are overzealous nitwits everywhere.

[JimC]

rEv wrote:

I don't think it would be reasonable to say anything to him. If it was clear he didn't have a stash of guns and was planning to kill anyone, they should have dropped it.

I agree, no need to do anything if the initial check showed no gun stashes etc.

Surely some civil liberties organisation is pursuing the matter.

Unless, of course, there is more to this story than has been released to the media, and there were other serious pointers towards him committing a crime other than simply what he posted...

[pErvinalia]

He might have been an atheist Democrat supporter as well.