Edward Snowden: heel or hero?

[Audley Strange]

The truth is that the American intelligence community is the most transparent of any major power on earth, by a (from my perspective) rather annoying mile in fact, and many people just plain aren't used to the idea that intelligence actually does require some degree of data collection/snooping - but they demand results from it nonetheless.

So why did the former head of the NSA lie to congress(?) a year or two ago when asked about the extent of spying on private communications?

Because intelligence agencies everywhere are a law unto themselves...

That, of course, is not the way it is supposed to be.

I agree, but I think that practically speaking, they sometimes have to be (plausible deniablity and all that), which is an ugly thought certainly, but par for the course.

[Coito ergo sum]

China's state newspaper praises Edward Snowden for 'tearing off Washington's sanctimonious mask'
State-run People's Daily says whistleblower has exposed US hypocrisy after Washington blamed Beijing for his escape

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... er-snowden

News
World news
Edward Snowden
Edward Snowden never crossed border into Russia, says foreign minister
Sergei Lavrov's comments about fugitive US whistleblower deepen mystery surrounding his whereabouts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... sia-border

Odd word choice, or perhaps, curious word choice. "He did not cross the Russian border." Hmmm.... does that mean he's not in Russia? One would think so, as one would think that a person has to cross the Russian border to get into Russia. But, is there sort of a technical meaning that can be applied? Technically, it is a legal fiction that airports are borders, and one "crosses" the border when one goes through customs and is admitted. One can land in an airport and be grabbed by immigration officials and held in a "stateless" status where one is technically not admitted into a country. Can one be said to not have "crossed the border" in that circumstance?

I find it odd that he did not say === "Snowden is not in Russia." Or, some words to the effect that he's not present there. Instead he said "He did not cross the Russian border." Sounds like a purposeful word choice.

I bet he's being held by the Russian government, but is not considered to have crossed into Russia under immigration law.

[Mysturji]

Hero. Absolutely.
Governments - more than anyone or anything else - need to be reminded of their place, and put back in it when they stray.

Much as I like to know what governments are getting up to behind my back, I also recognize the need for some things to stay secret. That in turn requires people who can be trusted to keep a secret.

That excludes any government, then.

@Ian: The difference between corporate and government data mining is (IMHO) that corporations want to know what we like so they can sell it to us with targeted advertising. This is, at worst, annoying.
Meanwhile, governments want to know what we're up to because (IMHO) they're a bunch of nosy, busybody control-freaks who think we're all criminals and they just can't prove it yet, and maybe when they CAN prove it they can either lock us up, fine us, increase our taxes, or maybe in a few special cases blackmail us into doing something nasty for them so they can maintain a certain degree of deniability.

[Audley Strange]

@ CES Your first paragraph, the answer is essentially yes and the odd language it might be translation noise or it might be specific to the way Russians structure the language, but yes it could be purposeful and political.

[Coito ergo sum]

@ CES Your first paragraph, the answer is essentially yes and the odd language it might be translation noise or it might be specific to the way Russians structure the language, but yes it could be purposeful and political.

Yeah -- it did seem an odd way to phrase it. A very specific way of saying something. He could have just said -- "He's not in Russia, as far as we know" -- but, he used the "crossed the Russian border" as if the border is the important part. Nobody cares if he "crossed" a "border" - we care where he is.

[Clinton Huxley]

I think it's too early to tell whether a heel or a hero. I do think it is handy that GCHQ is backing up the forum onto their cloud. We might need it someday.

[Audley Strange]

@ CES

Russian, not being English has a different way of stating things though. An example I was told that the english phrase "I'm going to take a taxi home" means more or less "I'm inviting the vehicle into my abode", by someone who knew Russian. Now they could have just been having a laugh at my expense, but such things are common in translations, the problem is, if it is a language that is very specific, then your point stands.

[Coito ergo sum]

@ CES

Russian, not being English has a different way of stating things though. An example I was told that the english phrase "I'm going to take a taxi home" means more or less "I'm inviting the vehicle into my abode", by someone who knew Russian. Now they could have just been having a laugh at my expense, but such things are common in translations, the problem is, if it is a language that is very specific, then your point stands.

Yeah there is that.

I wonder if he spoke in English, though. It was a public statement. I don't know. I have a knack for smelling this kind of nonsense, though. My gut is usually right on these things. But, my gut is thinking 60 to 67% chance he's in Russia right now.

[Tero]

There are Englishisms in all languages by now. Finns speak of taking a shower when the proper Finnish is "go to the shower". You can still take a nap in Finnish. Or you can go to "a nap".

[pErvinalia]

I'm going with 83.78%.

The most recent report I saw on the ABC here concerning this suggested that the language might have indeed been suggestive of the fact that he hasn't passed customs at the airport.

[Clinton Huxley]

There's English and there's Diplomaticese.

[Warren Dew]

I find it odd that he did not say === "Snowden is not in Russia." Or, some words to the effect that he's not present there. Instead he said "He did not cross the Russian border." Sounds like a purposeful word choice.

I bet he's being held by the Russian government, but is not considered to have crossed into Russia under immigration law.

Or, he took a continuing flight without ever leaving the transit area of the airport, thus never crossing the nominal "border".

[pErvinalia]

Good point! He could be already in Ecuador or perhaps another country (Iceland?).

Oh, this came across my facebook feed today. I haven't actually read it yet.

Snowden sought Booz Allen job to gather evidence on NSA surveillance

Fugitive whistle-blower reveals for first time he took job at US government contractor with the sole aim of collecting proof of spying activities

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/arti ... rveillance

[laklak]

Hero in my book.

[Warren Dew]

Apparently Putin thinks he's still in the transit area of the airport:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... a/2454757/

I'm sure NSA spooks are on their way there now to raid all the frequent flyer lounges. Let's hope Snowden can stay ahead of them.

This whole thing is a complete embarassment to the U.S. The U.S. government has been complaining a lot about Chinese hackers; now it turns out we did it to them first. Plus, we're constantly complaining about other governments trying to keep "political prisoners", but if we imprison Snowden, it's extremely clear that he'd easily meet our definition of "political prisoner".

I can see a legitimate government spying on other countries, but not on its own citizens. And if you're going to spy on other countries, at least don't complain when they do the same to you!