Evidently one hooker is worth $150 in Texas.

[Seth]

What amazes me is that Texas not only passes moronic laws, but doesn't even get them right in court.

Fraud is not theft. Presumably the guy let her into his house. No law was broken there. He handed over his money willingly. No force was employed.
That money was from that point HER property, not his.

She then (according to him) tried to leave without giving him sex. IF she had agreed, and IF that's what happened, then she's failed to honour a deal.
That's not theft, that's fraud at the most.

The money belonged to her. It wasn't his, once he willingly gave it to her. So she couldn't be stealing her own property.

I think what happened here is that the prosecution ran a deliberately weak case, to get the guy off the hook, beyond the law.
It happens all the time in these cases. They do it all the time in cases where the police kill someone.
I think this guy has a friend in the prosecutors office.

You actually have a very good point. It was probably a civil matter, and of course he would not be able to enforce a contract for an illegal activity in civil court.

I still don't have any sympathy for the hooker. All she had to do was return the money or give him a hand-job. It fucking sucks when you pay for sex and then get ripped off without getting off.

[JimC]

Can you get a discount on bulk purchases?

Say, a dozen for $1000?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Can you get a discount on bulk purchases?

Say, a dozen for $1000?

You can get one that weighs as much as a dozen for that price.

[Jason]

AP - Texas man shoots BBQ guest dead when the latter failed to BYOB, drank all of the former's beer, and attempted to leave with said property in his possession. He was shot in the back 29 times and pronounced dead on arrival. When questioned, the Texas man appeared to be in distress and expressed his remorse that he "missed a shot". No charges were laid and the local sheriff issued a statement letting would-be moochers know that "no theft is petty".

[rainbow]

AP - Texas man shoots BBQ guest dead when the latter failed to BYOB, drank all of the former's beer, and attempted to leave with said property in his possession. He was shot in the back 29 times and pronounced dead on arrival. When questioned, the Texas man appeared to be in distress and expressed his remorse that he "missed a shot". No charges were laid and the local sheriff issued a statement letting would-be moochers know that "no theft is petty".

I would've thought that he'd be sentenced to at least an hour at the firing range.

[mistermack]

This law really is a license to murder.

What if your wife leaves you, and then comes back for the cat?
You can blow her away if it's after a certain time in the evening? What is the "killing time" ? Eight o'clock?
Before eight it's murder, after eight it's legal?

I can't believe grown-up humans could pass such a law. Even little children would surely see what's wrong with it?
I mean, I get accused of America-bashing, but Jesus Christ, they certainly make it easy.
Fuck, they virtually make it compulsory.

[pErvinalia]

A jury in Bexar County, Texas just acquitted Ezekiel Gilbert of charges that he murdered a 23-year-old Craigslist escort—agreeing that because he was attempting to retrieve the $150 he'd paid to Lenora Ivie Frago, who wouldn't have sex with him, his actions were justified.

Gilbert had admitted to shooting Frago in the neck on Christmas Eve 2009, when she accepted $150 from Gilbert and left his home without having sex with him. Frago, who was paralyzed by the shooting, died several months later.

Gilbert's defense argued that the shooting wasn't meant to kill, and that Gilbert's actions were justified, because he believed that sex was included as part of the fee. Texas law allows people "to use deadly force to recover property during a nighttime theft."

The 30-year-old hugged his defense attorneys after the "not guilty" verdict was read by the judge. If convicted, he could have faced life in prison. He thanked God, his lawyers, and the jury for being able to "see what wasn't the truth."

http://gawker.com/texas-says-its-ok-to- ... -511636423

What in the fuck?!!

[pErvinalia]

I wondered, recently, if the US could possibly get any shittier.

Yes it can, and it did.

Why don't they all shoot people who don't fulfill a deal? Things didn't go better, when I bought a can of coca cola? Bam bam !!

Texas is a lunatic shithouse. It's now official.

Hyperbolic nonsense. The law is designed to deter nighttime muggings and robbery, and I'm all for it. If you don't want to get shot, don't rob people. Really simple, that.

If you don't want to get shot, don't annoy people. Really simple, that.

[pErvinalia]

I wondered, recently, if the US could possibly get any shittier.

Yes it can, and it did.

Why don't they all shoot people who don't fulfill a deal? Things didn't go better, when I bought a can of coca cola? Bam bam !!

Texas is a lunatic shithouse. It's now official.

Hyperbolic nonsense. The law is designed to deter nighttime muggings and robbery, and I'm all for it. If you don't want to get shot, don't rob people. Really simple, that.

So you value objects over human lives. Because that's essentially what this law is saying.

No, I value consequences for criminality. It is the dead hooker who chose her fate. She could have just given the guy a blow job...or given him his money back. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Why couldn't she face the courts like other "criminals"? Why did she deserve to be shot for this?

Don't answer. I don't feel like a dose of brain bleach tonight.

[pErvinalia]

Ok, "consequences for criminality." You do realize that in our modern system we have this great feature where different crimes cam carry different punishments? Given that, you approve of this law? You don't see death as a wee bit excessive for petty theft?

Good luck getting an honest answer.

He'll get an honest answer. The honest answer will be some old testament style bullshit moralising. Has it been conclusively established yet whether Seth is a christian?

[pErvinalia]

What amazes me is that Texas not only passes moronic laws, but doesn't even get them right in court.

Fraud is not theft. Presumably the guy let her into his house. No law was broken there. He handed over his money willingly. No force was employed.
That money was from that point HER property, not his.

She then (according to him) tried to leave without giving him sex. IF she had agreed, and IF that's what happened, then she's failed to honour a deal.
That's not theft, that's fraud at the most.

The money belonged to her. It wasn't his, once he willingly gave it to her. So she couldn't be stealing her own property.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Ok, "consequences for criminality." You do realize that in our modern system we have this great feature where different crimes cam carry different punishments? Given that, you approve of this law? You don't see death as a wee bit excessive for petty theft?

Good luck getting an honest answer.

He'll get an honest answer. The honest answer will be some old testament style bullshit moralising. Has it been conclusively established yet whether Seth is a christian?

Seeth is whatever is convenient at the time.

[Seth]

This law really is a license to murder.

What if your wife leaves you, and then comes back for the cat?
You can blow her away if it's after a certain time in the evening? What is the "killing time" ? Eight o'clock?
Before eight it's murder, after eight it's legal?

The metric is "darkness." If it's dark, that's when the statute kicks in. And yes, you probably could shoot her, depending on how she made entry to the premises.

The rules here (don't know about Texas) are that if one party in a domestic situation leaves the residence with an intent to abandon residency, that person CANNOT come back and break in (say the locks were changed) to get their stuff. Once they are locked out they MUST go to court and get a court order to reenter the house. If it's a domestic violence situation (even alleged indirectly) then the police will do a one-time "keep the peace" in which the person who left will be escorted in to collect PERSONAL BELONGINGS such as clothing and medication, and nothing else. In order to recover anything other than personal belongings, the individual has to go to court and get a court order for entry.

It's both illegal to lock your spouse (or girlfriend) out without warning if they aren't intending to abandon residency (called "forcible entry and detainer") and it's illegal to break in if you've been locked out, even illegally. The reason for this legal situation is precisely to avoid domestic conflicts. If you've been illegally locked out by your wife (or fiancee) because she/he's mad at you for something, you still have to go to court and get a court order to get back in legally.

Believe me, I know exactly how this works, I just went through it.

I'd been trying to get my ex-fiancee to move out voluntarily for almost six months but she refused. I couldn't simply lock her out without violating the "forcible entry and detainer" law, which is a misdemeanor crime. I had to convince her to leave voluntarily, which I did by throwing $15,000 in cash at her and asking here to leave...in a forceful voice.

She took the time to gather up the hundreds of scattered $50 bills and some other personal items and then she left with her dogs. Fortunately I had a witness to this in the house (a friend who came over to intervene) who was able to tell the police that she didn't look at all scared when she left. This was absolutely critical to my not being arrested for domestic violence.

She took the money and left voluntarily, which legally terminated her right to residency...although she didn't know it at the time.

Nearly 10 days later she made a complaint to the local police claiming that I had been carrying a gun in the waistband of my undershorts when I opened the door to her bedroom downstairs and tossed the money in. She told the cops she was "in fear of her life."

She was just trying to use the police to manipulate me by threat (which is a crime in and of itself), and fortunately for me the sergeant who was handling the case saw all the inconsistencies in her report...like the fact that she waited 10 days to report it and there's no way my underwear waistband could hold up a .45 H&K USP Compact pistol.

What she didn't know is that once she used the magic words "I was in fear for my life" it triggered a MANDATORY police investigation under Colorado law. She got caught lying to the police, so they dismissed the case as "unfounded" after talking with me and other witnesses.

But I'm still trying to get her to come get her things out of the house.

I can't believe grown-up humans could pass such a law. Even little children would surely see what's wrong with it?
I mean, I get accused of America-bashing, but Jesus Christ, they certainly make it easy.
Fuck, they virtually make it compulsory.[/quote]

[Seth]

I wondered, recently, if the US could possibly get any shittier.

Yes it can, and it did.

Why don't they all shoot people who don't fulfill a deal? Things didn't go better, when I bought a can of coca cola? Bam bam !!

Texas is a lunatic shithouse. It's now official.

Hyperbolic nonsense. The law is designed to deter nighttime muggings and robbery, and I'm all for it. If you don't want to get shot, don't rob people. Really simple, that.

So you value objects over human lives. Because that's essentially what this law is saying.

No, I value consequences for criminality. It is the dead hooker who chose her fate. She could have just given the guy a blow job...or given him his money back. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Why couldn't she face the courts like other "criminals"? Why did she deserve to be shot for this?

She "deserved" to be shot because she broke the law under circumstances that authorized the use of deadly force by the victim. She should have known better. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[Seth]

Ok, "consequences for criminality." You do realize that in our modern system we have this great feature where different crimes cam carry different punishments? Given that, you approve of this law? You don't see death as a wee bit excessive for petty theft?

Good luck getting an honest answer.

He'll get an honest answer. The honest answer will be some old testament style bullshit moralising. Has it been conclusively established yet whether Seth is a christian?

I'm not. I'm a non-theistic Tolerist(tm).