All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Meh, so is selfishness.

[Ian]

I love hearing Seth wax on about how well-prepared he is to hold back the proletarian cannibal hordes after some apocalypse happens. I can just feel the enlightenment and humanity wash over me.

[pErvinalia]

I would hope that asking the UK army to shoot starving UK civilians who were trying to get food would lead to lots of guns on the other side when the bulk of them deserted. Unsure how it would go in practice though

I would hope they did, it would be the morally correct thing to do, shoot a few, enforce rationing and that way you are saving the most number of lives

Once again, what you don't understand, is that in a true crisis it is the ones at the bottom who go without. There'll be no "rationing" in the sense of equally distributing food and resources. Those at the top will be looked after first, while those at the bottom will get scraps, if anything. You're authoritarianism is really showing in that you back this sort of ideology. When things go to shit and cops/military start shooting starving people, then I and a hell of a lot of other people will start shooting cops. But in all reality, as Azathoth says, there will be a lot of defection if the point comes that the cops military are asked to actually kill their own starving citizens. Well, I hope so at least.

[pErvinalia]

New Orleans wasnt a nationwide problem, if the entire country falls apart its population concentrations that enable feeding

Horseshit. It's population concentrations that will starve because the government isn't capable of feeding them if the entire country falls apart. The feds don't have enough food stored away to serve 12 million people even ONE full meal, much less 300 million.

Cities will become death zones where people eat anything alive, including other people.

^ This. That's why it's good to have rural connections and be able to handle yourself in a rural environment. Jonno will starve and be eaten within the first month of a disaster.

[Seth]

I love hearing Seth wax on about how well-prepared he is to hold back the proletarian cannibal hordes after some apocalypse happens. I can just feel the enlightenment and humanity wash over me.

"Hold back?" My ass. It's "E&E" to the bunker. Thus the "tactical movement" training.

City dwellers can eat each other all they like, I won't be there.

[Seth]

Meh, so is selfishness.

You planning on donating your body to the ravening hordes are you?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Meh, so is selfishness.

You planning on donating your body to the ravening hordes are you?

No, but I'll donate yours. Tomorrow, in fact.

[Seth]

Meh, so is selfishness.

You planning on donating your body to the ravening hordes are you?

No, but I'll donate yours. Tomorrow, in fact.

Good luck with that. Better make the first shot count because I shoot back.

[Coito ergo sum]

I love hearing Seth wax on about how well-prepared he is to hold back the proletarian cannibal hordes after some apocalypse happens. I can just feel the enlightenment and humanity wash over me.

Thinking about this, it occurred to me that I don't really want to hunker down where I live right now, if there is some sort of massive civil unrest. I don't have a very good defensive position in my suburban home, with wife and kid. We don't even have a fence around the house, and my locks and home security system works great now, but if the shit really hits the fan, it'll all be useless. Even a gun or two would be only useful to get me outta Dodge, so to speak.

So, my plan right now is to have enough food and fuel to get me somewhere else. Only, I can't think of a good place to go in that instance.

I think my best option is to try to organize the local community, so that the local community as a whole can band together to help each other peacefully survive.

[Coito ergo sum]

We are talking end of the world type scenarios here, magnitudes greater than New Orleans. In those circumstances there aren't going to be any rights there is going to be survival and to keep large numbers of people alive needs a lot of force. The use of peasants was obviously a joke but if British civilians try to take food supplies they will be shot, if Americans try it considered they have handguns I suspect they will just be blown up with tanks instead but the result will be the same

In that situation, there will be no feeding of the bulk of the population. There are no systems in place for that. Millions of people will die, and the government won't do a thing about it. In that sense, individuals stockpiling a reasonable supply of storable foodstuffs and water is quite a reasonable thing to do.

[MrJonno]

In that situation, there will be no feeding of the bulk of the population. There are no systems in place for that. Millions of people will die, and the government won't do a thing about it. In that sense, individuals stockpiling a reasonable supply of storable foodstuffs and water is quite a reasonable thing to do.

No doubt millions will die but whether millions survive or not is going to rely a lot more on what central or at least regional forces are left to keep order not how many tins of tomatoes any one individuals will have in their cupboards. My survival will rely on others well guess what no change there

[Audley Strange]

I'm sorry to say, Jonno, but that is the picture you paint of yourself.

I am a net contributor to society I see nothing positive in the concept of being independent. To me independent is too often just code for arrogant piece of shit

Why is is that people so easily equate a difference in political outlook with defective personal qualities?

Because people cannot understand why someone would be, from their perspective, deliberately wilfully wrong, so they must be mental, evil, nazis etc because if they are not then they might be right and that means the person calling them mental would be wrong and often the ego is not fond of such, so it lashes out. Neat little trick.

[MrJonno]

We are talking end of the world type scenarios here, magnitudes greater than New Orleans. In those circumstances there aren't going to be any rights there is going to be survival and to keep large numbers of people alive needs a lot of force. The use of peasants was obviously a joke but if British civilians try to take food supplies they will be shot, if Americans try it considered they have handguns I suspect they will just be blown up with tanks instead but the result will be the same

In that situation, there will be no feeding of the bulk of the population. There are no systems in place for that. Millions of people will die, and the government won't do a thing about it. In that sense, individuals stockpiling a reasonable supply of storable foodstuffs and water is quite a reasonable thing to do.

There are certainly plans to feed the bulk of the population , not going to work in a completely out of the blue all out nuclear attack but assuming there is some sort of indication of upcoming conflict restrictions on movement and hoarding of food will almost certainly become a serious crime before the crisis begins. Will there be enough left to do any good who knows? but I certainly put more faith in that than my ability to survive hiding under the stairs with my supply of baked beans.

[laklak]

No doubt millions will die but whether millions survive or not is going to rely a lot more on what central or at least regional forces are left to keep order not how many tins of tomatoes any one individuals will have in their cupboards. My survival will rely on others well guess what no change there

True in the long term for the vast majority of the population. In a total societal collapse city dwellers are toast, as are most suburbanites and even a good portion of rural dwellers. If you don't already own land in a relatively remote area you're likely to die. Even owning land doesn't insure your survival, you have to be able to get there, kick out anyone who's decided to move in, defend it from others and utilize it. If you lack a broad base of requisite skills, from carpentry to farming to food preservation to basic first aid you won't make it. I'm not sure I want to live in the 17th century anyway, so I'm not worrying about that.

I am far more concerned with short term disruptions from a natural disaster, lasting from several weeks to a few months. In that case preparation is key. You would need food, water, fuel and defense. I'm not envisioning ravening hordes of carnivorous city dwellers overrunning the countryside, but rather a general breakdown of civil order. Robbery, looting, rape and other crimes of opportunity that occur before the reestablishment of order. I'm about as ready for that as I can be.

[Rum]

Every man for himself - the American dream at its best..