All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

[Coito ergo sum]

Electrical home work is regulated, you can do just about anything (wrongly in my opinion) but for some thing you are required to notify the authorities. If you arent certified as an electrician you won't get a safety certificate and you house may be unsellable

http://www.north-herts.gov.uk/niceic_pa ... t_1_-2.pdf

I haven't read that link, but if the rules prohibit swapping out an outlet, I think they've gone too far, especially for stand-alone houses as opposed to apartment complexes.

That being said, when I want to replace an electrical outlet, I'll be damned if I'm going to pay someone to come out and do it. Nonsense. It's a 15 minute job.

I hung some hooks on the house to let She Who Must Be Obeyed put some hanging plants out front to spruce up the decor. I used an electric drill. Is that too complex in Jonno world? Ought I apply for a permit, and have a "certified" hook-hanger come out to the house? I mean - what if I drilled into an electrical wire or something, right? Better safe than sorry! After all, how many people really know how to use a masonry bit with an electric drill without knocking down the house?

[Babel]

Blizzards would be an obvious hazard in Yurp.

40 miles from the coast? If we get three inches of snow at once, it's both Easter and Christmas on the same day.

What do you mean that there's a gotcha in my future?

[pErvinalia]

@ Orpheus: Belgium, in a small rural town. I grow some of my own crops and my parents in law raise cattle on a small scale. So food is not really a short term worry. We have water supplies and firewood in abundance, just in case. But this is something that's standard, not something we did to prepare for some kind of semi-apocalyptic event.

Yeah, but you're normal. Imagine if you were Jonno. You wouldn't even know how to do that simple stuff.

[Coito ergo sum]

Blizzards would be an obvious hazard in Yurp.

40 miles from the coast? If we get three inches of snow at once, it's both Easter and Christmas on the same day.

What do you mean that there's a gotcha in my future?

I would say that those who are extraordinarily fortunate in their geographic location, are not really the norm in the world. Not everyone lives like you. Moreover, your lifestyle is more like a rural lifestyle in the US, where it is common for people to have some animals around a large piece of property and grow some amount of food, some of which they can sell at farmer's markets.

The current administration is trying to shut down local growers, of course, but that's another matter.... it's still "not uncommon" in the US.

[pErvinalia]

@ Orpheus: Belgium, in a small rural town. I grow some of my own crops and my parents in law raise cattle on a small scale. So food is not really a short term worry. We have water supplies and firewood in abundance, just in case. But this is something that's standard, not something we did to prepare for some kind of semi-apocalyptic event.

In 2003 in the northeastern US there was a massive "blackout" of electrical power which lasted several days to a couple of weeks for many people over a large area. In my town, which was a suburban neighborhood outside of a medium sized city, people began panicking after the first day. It took two or three days for all the stores to be closed and all the supermarkets to be empty. People who live in urban and suburban areas are completely dependent on the energy grid, not only to cool and heat homes and fill gas tanks for transportation, but for their very lives.

Luckily, in my neighborhood and most neighborhoods everyone remained effectively calm, although agitated and worried. But, the power was only out for a few days and then came back on and everything went back to normal. It got me to wondering -- what if the power stayed out for a month?

I don't think civil unrest on a grand scale is more than 30 days -- 60 tops -- away, if the electricity goes out.

I seriously think it's less than that. I'd give it 2 weeks tops. In extreme environments (i.e. really hot or really cold) less than that.

We like to to think that things like that can't happen and they are only the ravings of paranoid lunatics. But, World War 2 happened in Europe. There is nothing in the human condition that has changed so much in the last 75 years that ought to lead one to the conclusion that we can't get involved in other such events. And, in this day and age, our modern populations are more dependent on systems like the electrical grids than the people were 75 years ago. 75 years ago, half of Europe and the US didn't have indoor plumbing, let alone electric light/heat.

Yep, we are so dependent on technology these days that we risk an even bigger fall if we lose it.

[Babel]

Blizzards would be an obvious hazard in Yurp.

40 miles from the coast? If we get three inches of snow at once, it's both Easter and Christmas on the same day.

What do you mean that there's a gotcha in my future?

I would say that those who are extraordinarily fortunate in their geographic location, are not really the norm in the world. Not everyone lives like you. Moreover, your lifestyle is more like a rural lifestyle in the US, where it is common for people to have some animals around a large piece of property and grow some amount of food, some of which they can sell at farmer's markets.

The current administration is trying to shut down local growers, of course, but that's another matter.... it's still "not uncommon" in the US.

I realise that I'm pretty fortunate about my location. That's why I said that the contingency plans were so alien to my situation. This wasn't some kind of cheap shot at those living in worse sitations and preparing for bad times to come.

[MrJonno]

I hung some hooks on the house to let She Who Must Be Obeyed put some hanging plants out front to spruce up the decor. I used an electric drill. Is that too complex in Jonno world? Ought I apply for a permit, and have a "certified" hook-hanger come out to the house? I mean - what if I drilled into an electrical wire or something, right? Better safe than sorry! After all, how many people really know how to use a masonry bit with an electric drill without knocking down the house?

I had a go at that myself , wife still is moaning that the plants don't hang straight

[pErvinalia]

You should seek an NHS counsellor out. You don't want to be working those problems out yourself.

[MrJonno]

@ Orpheus: Belgium, in a small rural town. I grow some of my own crops and my parents in law raise cattle on a small scale. So food is not really a short term worry. We have water supplies and firewood in abundance, just in case. But this is something that's standard, not something we did to prepare for some kind of semi-apocalyptic event.

In 2003 in the northeastern US there was a massive "blackout" of electrical power which lasted several days to a couple of weeks for many people over a large area. In my town, which was a suburban neighborhood outside of a medium sized city, people began panicking after the first day. It took two or three days for all the stores to be closed and all the supermarkets to be empty. People who live in urban and suburban areas are completely dependent on the energy grid, not only to cool and heat homes and fill gas tanks for transportation, but for their very lives.

Luckily, in my neighborhood and most neighborhoods everyone remained effectively calm, although agitated and worried. But, the power was only out for a few days and then came back on and everything went back to normal. It got me to wondering -- what if the power stayed out for a month?

I don't think civil unrest on a grand scale is more than 30 days -- 60 tops -- away, if the electricity goes out.

We like to to think that things like that can't happen and they are only the ravings of paranoid lunatics. But, World War 2 happened in Europe. There is nothing in the human condition that has changed so much in the last 75 years that ought to lead one to the conclusion that we can't get involved in other such events. And, in this day and age, our modern populations are more dependent on systems like the electrical grids than the people were 75 years ago. 75 years ago, half of Europe and the US didn't have indoor plumbing, let alone electric light/heat.

Isn't that what the army was invented for to deal with such situations, if civilian forces can't deal with such situations you bring in the military . If they can't deal with it well its serious do do's . I believe the UK has around 2 weeks fuel if we get cut off but that can last for months if only the military gets it. If Her Majesty Armed Forces can't deal with a bunch of unarmed peasants rioting then I want a refund on my taxes!

[laklak]

I do better electrical, plumbing, framing, dry wall, painting and almost all other construction jobs better than the contractors and "professionals" I've hired. The only reason I hired a contractor to put in our pool and remodel the house was a) I didn't want to do it and b) it's a bureaucratic nightmare to do it yourself. Pretty much the only reason I hire anybody to do anything is I can't be arsed with it. I'm paying someone to replace the steering and control cables on the "new" boat, and to scrape and paint the bottom, but only because I can't be bothered to pull the thing out of the water and it's too big to leave in the driveway or front yard while I'm working on it. I'm rebuilding the main outboard on the "old" boat because I don't trust any "mechanic" to do it, they'll fuck it up. Needs a complete rewiring, too, that's next on the list.

There's enough food and fuel stored to get us through maybe a month if we're hit with a big hurricane, though it probably won't be necessary because we'll get the hell out of Dodge and head up to the mountain house. Survival Rule One: know when to bug out. Survival Rule Two: If you can't bug out, be well prepared to stay put. That includes weapons, because I know damn well that in any urban environment we're about 48 hours from complete fucking anarchy. #ref Katrina if you don't believe that.

I value my life and the lives of my family too highly to trust some faceless bureaucrat to take care of us.

[Coito ergo sum]

Blizzards would be an obvious hazard in Yurp.

40 miles from the coast? If we get three inches of snow at once, it's both Easter and Christmas on the same day.

What do you mean that there's a gotcha in my future?

I would say that those who are extraordinarily fortunate in their geographic location, are not really the norm in the world. Not everyone lives like you. Moreover, your lifestyle is more like a rural lifestyle in the US, where it is common for people to have some animals around a large piece of property and grow some amount of food, some of which they can sell at farmer's markets.

The current administration is trying to shut down local growers, of course, but that's another matter.... it's still "not uncommon" in the US.

I realise that I'm pretty fortunate about my location. That's why I said that the contingency plans were so alien to my situation. This wasn't some kind of cheap shot at those living in worse sitations and preparing for bad times to come.

But, see, the thing is, you HAVE taken the contingency measures, only they are natural to your way of life. Having a safe back-up level of food is one of the contingency measures the crazies take. Only, they live in suburbia, so they buy barrels of dried foods and stockpile clean water to give them some backup. You have animals and plants and excess food, so you're covered. If you were in the US, as a small farmer you'd probably have a rifle or shotgun to address varmints on your property. Another tool of the crazy paranoids. That sort of thing. You likely have a well, and can expect clean well-water if there is a problem. But, a person hooked up to city water needs to have bottled water available, or they will have to immediately start boiling. In other words, your life closer to nature means that you of necessity do some of the things that the so-called paranoid nutters are doing.

[MrJonno]

Can you ever fit 2 months of food into a British house?, . Go shopping 3 times per week as I simply physically can't carry food that will last more than a few day
How long do microwave meals last without refrigeration?

[MrJonno]

But, see, the thing is, you HAVE taken the contingency measures, only they are natural to your way of life. Having a safe back-up level of food is one of the contingency measures the crazies take. Only, they live in suburbia, so they buy barrels of dried foods and stockpile clean water to give them some backup. You have animals and plants and excess food, so you're covered. If you were in the US, as a small farmer you'd probably have a rifle or shotgun to address varmints on your property. Another tool of the crazy paranoids. That sort of thing. You likely have a well, and can expect clean well-water if there is a problem. But, a person hooked up to city water needs to have bottled water available, or they will have to immediately start boiling. In other words, your life closer to nature means that you of necessity do some of the things that the so-called paranoid nutters are doing.

The first thing any government would do in a nation wide disaster is stop people leaving the cities, not like in Hollywood movies where everyone is encouraged/tries to leave.

You can't feed millions of people unless they are very close together, food is rationed and forces capable of stopping millions of hungry people taking it are available (redneck with shotgun is not sufficient)

[Babel]

But, see, the thing is, you HAVE taken the contingency measures, only they are natural to your way of life. Having a safe back-up level of food is one of the contingency measures the crazies take. Only, they live in suburbia, so they buy barrels of dried foods and stockpile clean water to give them some backup. You have animals and plants and excess food, so you're covered. If you were in the US, as a small farmer you'd probably have a rifle or shotgun to address varmints on your property. Another tool of the crazy paranoids. That sort of thing. You likely have a well, and can expect clean well-water if there is a problem. But, a person hooked up to city water needs to have bottled water available, or they will have to immediately start boiling. In other words, your life closer to nature means that you of necessity do some of the things that the so-called paranoid nutters are doing.

Never considered that to be contigency plans, but I guess they might be exactly that. Aren't I fabulous?

Anyway, just to be sure. I never thought of people doing some basic preparations 'paranoid nutters'.

[Coito ergo sum]

@ Orpheus: Belgium, in a small rural town. I grow some of my own crops and my parents in law raise cattle on a small scale. So food is not really a short term worry. We have water supplies and firewood in abundance, just in case. But this is something that's standard, not something we did to prepare for some kind of semi-apocalyptic event.

In 2003 in the northeastern US there was a massive "blackout" of electrical power which lasted several days to a couple of weeks for many people over a large area. In my town, which was a suburban neighborhood outside of a medium sized city, people began panicking after the first day. It took two or three days for all the stores to be closed and all the supermarkets to be empty. People who live in urban and suburban areas are completely dependent on the energy grid, not only to cool and heat homes and fill gas tanks for transportation, but for their very lives.

Luckily, in my neighborhood and most neighborhoods everyone remained effectively calm, although agitated and worried. But, the power was only out for a few days and then came back on and everything went back to normal. It got me to wondering -- what if the power stayed out for a month?

I don't think civil unrest on a grand scale is more than 30 days -- 60 tops -- away, if the electricity goes out.

We like to to think that things like that can't happen and they are only the ravings of paranoid lunatics. But, World War 2 happened in Europe. There is nothing in the human condition that has changed so much in the last 75 years that ought to lead one to the conclusion that we can't get involved in other such events. And, in this day and age, our modern populations are more dependent on systems like the electrical grids than the people were 75 years ago. 75 years ago, half of Europe and the US didn't have indoor plumbing, let alone electric light/heat.

Isn't that what the army was invented for to deal with such situations, if civilian forces can't deal with such situations you bring in the military . If they can't deal with it well its serious do do's . I believe the UK has around 2 weeks fuel if we get cut off but that can last for months if only the military gets it. If Her Majesty Armed Forces can't deal with a bunch of unarmed peasants rioting then I want a refund on my taxes!

We do not have military personnel of sufficient numbers to address this situation throughout the nation. The US has 3,077 counties. So, all US active and reserve personal figures to around 741 military personnel per county (that includes all personnel, not just soldiers) per county in the US, and figuring what would be needed to control even our major cities -- there just aren't enough.

But, to answer your first question, no, the US military was not invented to deal with domestic unrest. Our army was invented to deal with external threats. It is always a dicey thing in the US for the army to be called in to counter civilians. Not good. We were not traditionally a military police state.

I find it loathsome, almost unfathomable, that your concern in the situation we're discussing is the quelling of rioting peasants. I mean, good grief, man. The situation presented was one where something has happened akin to a complete loss of the electrical grid for an extended period of time. Mr. Jonno's answer: have the military take all the available fuel, and leave the peasants with nothing, and then use the force of the military to quiet (or kill, if they don't pipe down) the peasants. Problem solved.

How common would you say your point of view is in Britain? Do you see yourself as relatively middle of the road? You are espousing commonly held philosophical viewpoints? Is yours, do you think, arguably in line with the majority view? I sure hope not. The absolute repugnance of your views is mind boggling -- I mean -- really --- "isn't that what the military is for...." to show up and gun down the rioting peasants to keep things quiet, while we use all the fuel for the military?