All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

[MrJonno]

I'm sorry to say, Jonno, but that is the picture you paint of yourself.

I am a net contributor to society I see nothing positive in the concept of being independent. To me independent is too often just code for arrogant piece of shit

[JimC]

I'm waiting for Collector to give us a joke which starts "How many MrJonnos does it take to change a lightbulb..."

None. He calls someone from government social services to do it for him.

Because unsanctioned screwing in of light bulbs should be banned by civilians, as they might electrocute themselves and we have to protect society after all, so we could never allow that, you know...

The funny thing is, that in most government and university workplaces here in Australia you aren't allowed to change a lightbulb for fear of some workplace accident. You have to call in the properties and facilities people to do it for you (and usually wait a week till they get around to it).

Yeah, it's a pain in the butt...

I blame HR!

[pErvinalia]

I'm sorry to say, Jonno, but that is the picture you paint of yourself.

I am a net contributor to society I see nothing positive in the concept of being independent. To me independent is too often just code for arrogant piece of shit

Bollocks. You seem to have no appreciation of how fragile life is in the city (and elsewhere). If you think rich pricks give a shit about you and the working class, think again. When things go to shit, power and services are rerouted to the rich, while the rest sit in the dark and shit in the gutter.

[Collector1337]

I can also put together Ikea furniture (but hate doing so), never touched an axe , I'm ok with screwdrivers but I've never used a hammer in my adult life.

You are a pathetic individual.

[MrJonno]

Bollocks. You seem to have no appreciation of how fragile life is in the city (and elsewhere). If you think rich pricks give a shit about you and the working class, think again. When things go to shit, power and services are rerouted to the rich, while the rest sit in the dark and shit in the gutter.

The UK isn't big enough for the rich and poor to live apart, millionaires live within walking distance of those at the bottom. Politicians get burgled and mugged. Everyone in a big city regardless of income uses public transport (well those who can afford to). If things get that bad being rich isn't going to be of much use

[JimC]

I'm sorry to say, Jonno, but that is the picture you paint of yourself.

I am a net contributor to society I see nothing positive in the concept of being independent. To me independent is too often just code for arrogant piece of shit

Your central thesis seems to be that modern urban societies are connected networks where specialised services are generally provided in the safest and most efficient ways by specialists. Generally I agree with that, but is doesn't hurt if people can be self-sufficient in as many ways as they feel comfortable in doing, as long as it doesn't produce a gung-ho, cowboy attitude that leads to major problems. Also, as rEv said earlier, in medium-level urban disasters (not OTT Crumple catastrophes), the more citizens can do to help themselves, the easier it is for the system to recover. Too much helpless dependence on provided services would be a worry, IMO - we need individual resilience...

[pErvinalia]

Bollocks. You seem to have no appreciation of how fragile life is in the city (and elsewhere). If you think rich pricks give a shit about you and the working class, think again. When things go to shit, power and services are rerouted to the rich, while the rest sit in the dark and shit in the gutter.

The UK isn't big enough for the rich and poor to live apart, millionaires live within walking distance of those at the bottom. Politicians get burgled and mugged. Everyone in a big city regardless of income uses public transport (well those who can afford to). If things get that bad being rich isn't going to be of much use

keep dreaming. For a lefty, you seem to have little appreciation of the dynamics of a neoliberal society.

[Collector1337]

I am a net contributor to society

That's where you're wrong. You can be replaced. Easily.

I see nothing positive in the concept of being independent.

Wrong again, and stupid.

To me independent is too often just code for arrogant piece of shit

Wrong again. Nothing arrogant about competence. Sounds like you're the arrogant piece of shit.

[MrJonno]

This isn't America, the rich don't live in large gated communities, they may well love to do so but considering how expensive land is even they can't afford to do so

[MrJonno]

That's where you're wrong. You can be replaced. Easily.

That applies to everyone from the unemployed to the CEO of a big company, no one is that important

[cronus]

The very rich of the UK live on the Channel Isles though.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Oh come on Seth, you're just playing at SURVIVAL.

In Africa you might learn what it really means.

Can you spot Seeth?

[MrJonno]

The very rich of the UK live on the Channel Isles though.

True, and the channel isles are more vulnerable to disaster than London is, everything is imported there

[orpheus]

I, on the other hand, improvise, adapt and overcome because I spend my life learning how to do things like plumbing, electrical work, welding, shooting, carpentry, masonry, concrete-laying, horse doctoring, delivering calves, fixing tractors and trucks, growing crops, slaughtering animals, gutting and deboning and preparing said animals, hunting, fishing, flying, shooting, taking photographs, building radios, installing antenna systems, tactical movement and fieldcraft and a thousand other things I've troubled myself to learn how to do because when it comes to the narrow passage, I want to not just survive, I want to thrive

Fat lot of good that will do if you are living on the 15th floor of a block of flats, humanity is urban these days and is becoming more urban by the day. Most of us left rural life behind centuries ago and good riddance. I prefer to know the bus timetable its far more useful than knowing 'tactical movement'

Have you ever been in a city during a disaster? I was in Brisbane in Australia during the big floods a couple of years ago. Major access routes where blocked, and electricity was out in some places, for up to 4 or 5 days. In that time, the city ground to a halt. People were seriously running out of food and milk etc, and even if you could drive anywhere, petrol was becoming scarce. Living in a city it is even MORE important to have a personal disaster management plan of sorts. Things go pear shaped in big cities VERY quickly.

^ This.

As soon as the buses stop running, he'd probably just curl up into the fetal position and die because he wouldn't know what to do after the nanny state failed to take care of him.

But here's the thing: in an urban disaster, how many of the skills Seth lists will actually be useful? None would be my guess. Knowing how to deliver a calf, gut a fish or grow crops won't help you in Manhattan.

Yes, it's important to have a disaster plan. But that mostly consists of stockpiling food and water, having flashlights, lanterns and batteries, a crank-powered radio, and a plan for leaving the city quickly and early. Planning in advance to coordinate with neighbors and people outside the city is also wise. You see, self-reliance isn't sufficient in all situations, contrary to the romantic image. Cooperation with others can help a lot.

[Babel]

Wow... I don't feel the need to have that kind of contingency plans. These plans seems so disconnected from my reality.