Dracustein?

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Re: Dracustein?

Post by Rum » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:26 pm

Audley Strange wrote:
Rum wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:How? I mean how?

These dimwits are being paid to teach children, what the fuck can they teach them if they can't even get basic admin right? I'm not a teacher but I was sure changes to the curriculum are not just faxed through to the office junior only once.
The schooled failed its Ofsted inspection. One can see why I guess.
This is what really pisses me off about the U.K. We keep hearing politicians saying "We need to hold the private sector to account." When was the last time a Education Minister was jailed for gross incompetence?
Gove is an idiot of a high order and I would gladly see him jailed for any number of stupid decisions, however he isn't responsible for this cockupness.

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Re: Dracustein?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:32 pm

Rum wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:
Rum wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:How? I mean how?

These dimwits are being paid to teach children, what the fuck can they teach them if they can't even get basic admin right? I'm not a teacher but I was sure changes to the curriculum are not just faxed through to the office junior only once.
The schooled failed its Ofsted inspection. One can see why I guess.
This is what really pisses me off about the U.K. We keep hearing politicians saying "We need to hold the private sector to account." When was the last time a Education Minister was jailed for gross incompetence?
Gove is an idiot of a high order and I would gladly see him jailed for any number of stupid decisions, however he isn't responsible for this cockupness.
Nope. It was a failing school in any case - I guess we can see why now!
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Re: Dracustein?

Post by JimC » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:26 am

Shit!

We were meant to do anti differentiation, and we studied the 7 times tables instead!

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Re: Dracustein?

Post by Audley Strange » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:38 am

Rum wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:
Rum wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:How? I mean how?

These dimwits are being paid to teach children, what the fuck can they teach them if they can't even get basic admin right? I'm not a teacher but I was sure changes to the curriculum are not just faxed through to the office junior only once.
The schooled failed its Ofsted inspection. One can see why I guess.
This is what really pisses me off about the U.K. We keep hearing politicians saying "We need to hold the private sector to account." When was the last time a Education Minister was jailed for gross incompetence?
Gove is an idiot of a high order and I would gladly see him jailed for any number of stupid decisions, however he isn't responsible for this cockupness.
No I'm not saying he is specifically (and while I don't particularly like Michael Gove, since he is a marshmallow faced poltroon, I don't think he's an idiot and I do think he's passionate about education, which may be a good or bad thing) but the point rather that a school failing that bad and schools failing consistently is, like hospitals that do so a failure of management. Since Ministers are ultimately responsible and I consider children's education something vitally important to a nation, I fail to see why we just shrug their failings off rather than actually holding them accountable. Just the same way as we do the fiendish bankers. Both of them fucking up ruin our nations well-being and future economy.
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Re: Dracustein?

Post by laklak » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:47 am

Hand out copies of this, problem solved.

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Re: Dracustein?

Post by cronus » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:31 am

Frankenstein is stitched together. Much social astrology bunk too. Give me Dracula any day. :coffee:
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Re: Dracustein?

Post by Svartalf » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:51 am

I must admit that for all of it being a gothic novel revival, Dracula is much the better read.
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Re: Dracustein?

Post by Rum » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:28 am

Audley Strange wrote:
Rum wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:
Rum wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:How? I mean how?

These dimwits are being paid to teach children, what the fuck can they teach them if they can't even get basic admin right? I'm not a teacher but I was sure changes to the curriculum are not just faxed through to the office junior only once.
The schooled failed its Ofsted inspection. One can see why I guess.
This is what really pisses me off about the U.K. We keep hearing politicians saying "We need to hold the private sector to account." When was the last time a Education Minister was jailed for gross incompetence?
Gove is an idiot of a high order and I would gladly see him jailed for any number of stupid decisions, however he isn't responsible for this cockupness.
No I'm not saying he is specifically (and while I don't particularly like Michael Gove, since he is a marshmallow faced poltroon, I don't think he's an idiot and I do think he's passionate about education, which may be a good or bad thing) but the point rather that a school failing that bad and schools failing consistently is, like hospitals that do so a failure of management. Since Ministers are ultimately responsible and I consider children's education something vitally important to a nation, I fail to see why we just shrug their failings off rather than actually holding them accountable. Just the same way as we do the fiendish bankers. Both of them fucking up ruin our nations well-being and future economy.
Because it makes no sense to. The desire for accountability in these sorts of situations amounts to the need for irrational and emotional revenge. 'Somebody must pay'! There is no direct accountability link between Gove and the school in question and indeed there are mechanisms in place in government to separate operational responsibility and state control over the wider strategic direction of policy.

If anyone should have to go it is a civil servant somewhere in the chain - possibly someone from Ofsted, who are paid to see these things coming or a local government School Improvement officer who should have had their eye on the ball. Schools have so many self assessment processes in place these days they should not be failing inspections without anyone having at least some pre-warning. They do of course, which then raises the question of the value of the inspection system. Having had to work with it in my old job I have long had my doubts about it. Now that IS Gove's responsibility.

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Re: Dracustein?

Post by Audley Strange » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:38 am

Well one could say that about any kind of accountability or judicial affair. "You just want revenge."

No I want people who play monopoly with real people's lives to be held accountable when they fuck up. I want a society where jobs come with responsibilities and I'm afraid the hierarchies of both our public and private sectors never are. I have dozens of times fought with people in both sectors. We've spent the last 30 odd years finding ways to keep people in jobs which they have neither the ability to perform nor the maturity to accept such a thing as responsibility.

Ever had some disinterested snotty fuckwit on the phone who clearly isn't listening to you and is clearly goofing off? Who puts you on hold to talk to his teammates? That's a product of a shit school system where no one takes responsibility forced into a job he doesn't want for a company who doesn't care about it's customers. Yet he's the only one likely to receive anything approaching discipline. Not H.R. for recruiting, not their bosses for setting the wage entry too low, not the board for spending more on advertising than paying those who deal with their customers.

We built an entire rail network in the U.K. once between the 1830's and 40's, it took a decade, now it's going to take 20 years, with more money and manpower to get two high speed rail links from Leeds to London. Why? Because non one is willing to take any ultimate responsibility for it so everything moves slowly and inefficiency and redundancy is built into every stage to deliberately stop anyone being held accountable.
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Re: Dracustein?

Post by MrJonno » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:26 am

Problem with accountability is the person who has it must have the authority to go with it and most of us only have authority in a very small area.

As for rail links they are take too long because of planning permission. If the government wants to implement a strategic project it should simply do it and if people don't like it then they should elect another government.

What is the point in asking someone whose house will be demolished by a new runway or track what their opinion is on the matter?. Local politicians job should be to ensure good compensation for those involved not fighting central government over it
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Re: Dracustein?

Post by Trinity » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:58 pm

It seems that people are so concerned with buck passing or outright denial through fear of being accountable that more often than not, the ones to be really affected (in this case the students) are not considered until after a fuck up has occurred. I long desperately for people to be responsible for their own actions and decisions and for there to be traceability from the minion who may be initially conceived to be the blunderer right through the middle men and on up to those who are responsible for the correct provision of training/guidelines and legislature. No one seems to want to hold their hands up and say "I fucked up, I'm sorry, I'll try and learn from this and make sure it never happens again" and mean it.
I also think that (I think I'm echoing Audley) if people are valued more for what they do and find a real meaning to what they do, they are more likely to give a shit.
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Re: Dracustein?

Post by MrJonno » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:29 pm

Trinity wrote:It seems that people are so concerned with buck passing or outright denial through fear of being accountable that more often than not, the ones to be really affected (in this case the students) are not considered until after a fuck up has occurred. I long desperately for people to be responsible for their own actions and decisions and for there to be traceability from the minion who may be initially conceived to be the blunderer right through the middle men and on up to those who are responsible for the correct provision of training/guidelines and legislature. No one seems to want to hold their hands up and say "I fucked up, I'm sorry, I'll try and learn from this and make sure it never happens again" and mean it.
I also think that (I think I'm echoing Audley) if people are valued more for what they do and find a real meaning to what they do, they are more likely to give a shit.
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Re: Dracustein?

Post by Trinity » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:00 pm

Yes, agreed, I guess I was implying that in my post but I do actually remember times when I was younger, when this wasn't such a culture and I think people were more self responsible (apart from politicians who always think they can get away with anything!).
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Re: Dracustein?

Post by Audley Strange » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:25 pm

Well that's exactly my point. Politicians specifically prate on about people being held to account but they themselves never are really are they? Occasionally some tool like Huene or Archer will end up in the stripy hole, but more often than not they are allowed to keep their positions, or at worst resign. There is a fundamental problem in our education system, despite all the rhetoric there is a frustration and apathy. Not all of that is unjustified and we also have to look at how such tradtional models are coping or failing to cope with social and cultural shifts rather than just blame politicians or teachers.

However I'd suggest that in the case of the O.P. this is gross neglect of duty on a scale that is akin to leaving an entire hospital ward unattended for a week. It's not just an oversight and if it was known that the school was failing in the first place, why the fuck was it not given more attention and assistance? If you know someone is not capable you fire them or watch them like a hawk until they learn, so in this case since it was known the school was not up to scratch, the responsibility lies above them, with someone who has the authority and ablility to say "get that school fixed".

So yeah I do think someone should be held to account for potentially jeopardising the futures of a school full of children.
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Re: Dracustein?

Post by Rum » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:32 pm

The head teacher is where the buck will probably stop and probably rightly as line manager of the teacher who clearly didn't do their job, or possibly as the person whose job it was to pass on the curriculum info (it isn't always the Head). Head teachers are sacked regularly when they don't get their schools out of special Measures or mess up budgets etc. I have been part of three or four sackings in those situations. They aren't easy for anyone concerned, but it is done with a level of ruthlessness that you normally only see in the private sector.

I don't know the details of this school but on top of this cock up if they don't improve I would lay odds the head will go.

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