All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

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Seth
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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Seth » Fri May 31, 2013 5:14 pm

Beatsong wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Animavore wrote:So they deliberately pit "repeal gun laws" against five other incredibly stupid and/or irrelevant policies. Well done :clap:
I'm not sure I understand -- the British people were able to be resounding against the first few, but by the time they got to the hand gun law repeal they were so tuckered out from all that disagreeing that they just had to agree to be in favor of repeal of the gun ban? :thinks:
Here's the actual telegraph poll:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... e-now.html

The options are presented as radio buttons, of which you can choose one and only one (if you have chosen one and then choose a different one, it unmarks the radio button for your first choice). Which is why, of course, the percentages reported add up to one hundred percent.

So yes, the poll is basically saying "84% of Britons would consider repealing the handgun laws somewhat less batshit insane than five of the other most batshit insane things we could think of." And that's not even getting into the fact that it's a "poll" conducted online (with what mechanism to avoid duplicate voting, exactly?) with no connection to any established polling organisation with any credibility, among the readership of one of the most right wing newspapers in the country.

And this is supposed to mean "84% of Britons" want the handgun law repealed. Give me a fucking break. This is just Seth at his most shamelessly moronic, deciding that the bottom of the barrel isn't quite low enough and he'd better scrape that away and see what he can find.

Fucking hilarious.
Hey, I didn't run the poll, I just reported it.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri May 31, 2013 5:15 pm

Red herring then.
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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Seth » Fri May 31, 2013 5:18 pm

MrJonno wrote:
Same thing with the US NRA, except it's also an advocate for lawful armed self-defense.
Thats a big different, no one should be advocating unarmed self defence never mind armed
Okay, you've finally topped yourself. That is the single most hilariously ignorant, stupid and servile thing I've ever read on the Internet.

Congratulations, you have proven yourself a poe.

And you people call ME a troll....

:fp:
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"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Rum » Fri May 31, 2013 5:24 pm

I lean to the liberal left too, but this is a step too far.

Things like Judo, Taikwando (sp?) and the like are great for kids. They teach self discipline, confidence and help keep them fit. I don't for the life of me see how they can be seen as promoting violence as a solution to the resolution of problems.

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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Seth » Fri May 31, 2013 5:29 pm

MrJonno wrote:
So what if a situation is unavoidable, teach people to lie down and die, rather than how to defend themselves? You first.
No whack them over the head in an untrained way and run for it, society as a whole is better of if everyone doesn't go around 'prepared' and hyped for scenario's that are so rare. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the concept of self defence but there is everything wrong with people going around prepped for it which simply leads to violence as whole being escalated

I always thought whoever used the term 'fight or flight' first had to be a man, because of the order of the words, the sensible approach should always be flight unless you are utterly cornered and don't a choice
If you don't know beforehand how to fight, flight is your only option, and if that option is closed to you, you're just completely fucked.

You consistently confuse the ability, skill and tools of self-defense with a desire to be placed in a self-defense situation.

That's just stupid (as usual).

I've never shot anyone and I hope I never have to do so, but if that's the last resort to save my or another person's life, then I'd damned well better be well prepared to use that self-defense tool correctly and effectively, and that requires regular training. And that applies to guns, knives, cricket bats and hands and feet too.

The only people I've ever heard argue so vociferously for government-mandated helplessness in the general populace are violent thugs and criminals who revel in such laws because it makes their avocation so much safer and easier. Where, I wonder, does that fact leave you, Jonno?
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Beatsong » Fri May 31, 2013 5:58 pm

Seth wrote:Hey, I didn't run the poll, I just reported it chose to report it as if it was something more significant than meaningless right wing drivel.
FIFY

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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri May 31, 2013 6:12 pm

[quote="Seth"The only people I've ever heard argue so vociferously for government-mandated helplessness in the general populace are violent thugs and criminals who revel in such laws because it makes their avocation so much safer and easier. [/quote]
Well, you do have to go outside your immediate circle of friends for differing viewpoints.
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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Robert_S » Fri May 31, 2013 10:31 pm

MrJonno wrote:
The effect and consequences of policy like you advocate would be to create a nation of victims
No it creates a nation of people who go out of their way to avoid conflict and if its absolutely needed leave it to the professionals who do it all day long
Which gives anyone capable of of providing any hint of possible of conflict a disturbing amount of power.

How far out of my way should I go? How often?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Seth » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:49 am

Beatsong wrote:
Seth wrote:Hey, I didn't run the poll, I just reported it chose to report it as if it was something more significant than meaningless right wing drivel.
FIFY
Humorless drone.
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"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:50 am

Seth wrote:
Beatsong wrote:
Seth wrote:Hey, I didn't run the poll, I just reported it chose to report it as if it was something more significant than meaningless right wing drivel.
FIFY
Humorless drone.
Don't brag.
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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:10 am

Coito ergo sum wrote:
MrJonno wrote:
That has absolutely nothing to do with being prepared. I want my kid to know how defend herself not in order to attack people or confront them, but in order to defend herself.
And you really think there is a difference?, well I do know the answer to that you genuinely believe it.
There is definitely a difference. The idea that "defending" is the same thing as "attacking or confronting" ignores common usage of the English language and common sense.
Yep. And if one does a martial art like Ju-Jitsu, it's not an attacking martial art generally. It's primarily defensive moves. I wonder if Jonno would ban it, in his ignorant view?
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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Jason » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:24 am

What do you mean by "I"?

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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by Seth » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:28 am

Făkünamę wrote:What do you mean by "I"?
What do you mean by "you"?
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:28 am

What does he mean by "what"?
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Re: All is not well in the UK's Socialist Utopia

Post by MrJonno » Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:09 pm

Rum wrote:I lean to the liberal left too, but this is a step too far.

Things like Judo, Taikwando (sp?) and the like are great for kids. They teach self discipline, confidence and help keep them fit. I don't for the life of me see how they can be seen as promoting violence as a solution to the resolution of problems.
Don't think you have read what I posted, 'martial arts' are fine for all the reasons you mentioned I said they shouldn't be promoted as self defence (ie to go around bashing up people you think may be 'bad' guys) and guess what very few organisations who run these do promote it this way, in the same way there is nothing wrong with kitchen knives but I would expect an immediate crack down on any supermarket who advertised a ninja cooking utensil range with the logo 'Great on chicken even better on burglars. That of course is already illegal in the UK, its a crime to advertise any knife of any sort in a way that may promote it as a weapon'.
When only criminals carry guns the police know exactly who to shoot!

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