Dr. Kermit Gosnell Baby Slayer

[Seth]

Monstrous.

I think Seth, probably deliberately, left out the part where it is mostly babies with serious fatal anomolies which are aborted and not just any old baby.

http://www.drhern.com/en/abortion-servi ... rtion.html

That's what the pro-abortionists would like you to believe anyway. Since Hern is not required to document these "serious fatal anomolies" or report them to the state so it can ensure he's properly evaluating the infants, like Gosnell, it's hard to tell exactly what happens in the abortion chamber, and the evidence is conveniently destroyed by Hern.

And if they are "serious fatal anomolies," then why not deliver the child and let it die naturally rather than dismembering it in utero?

Sorry, but Hern does late-term convenience abortions too.

[Seth]

Monstrous.

Yes, that's what some people think. George Tiller, another late-term abortionist in Kansas was killed in 2010 by someone who felt that way.

That's monstrous too.

Yes, it is. Hern wears a ballistic vest every day and his clinic is bullet proof and bomb-resistant.

[Animavore]

Monstrous.

I think Seth, probably deliberately, left out the part where it is mostly babies with serious fatal anomolies which are aborted and not just any old baby.

http://www.drhern.com/en/abortion-servi ... rtion.html

That's what the pro-abortionists would like you to believe anyway. Since Hern is not required to document these "serious fatal anomolies" or report them to the state so it can ensure he's properly evaluating the infants, like Gosnell, it's hard to tell exactly what happens in the abortion chamber, and the evidence is conveniently destroyed by Hern.

And if they are "serious fatal anomolies," then why not deliver the child and let it die naturally rather than dismembering it in utero?

Sorry, but Hern does late-term convenience abortions too.

Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. The evidence is conveniently destroyed

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Left forgets that Planned Parenthood started out as a Eugenics organization. If you look at their current customer base, I think they still are.

Just another example of why you shouldn't try to think.

Really? Have you looked at their client base? Do you know that even blacks are accusing PP of "genocide" for the number of black babies they abort every year?

"It's a woman's right to have an abortion at any time, especially if they are black."

And that's from the bible-thumpers, of course, so you have no case.

[Warren Dew]

Back on topic ...

Don't the women have a case to answer as well, or am I missing something?

You mean the women seeking abortions?

No. Gosnell lied to many of them about the age of their babies, frequently telling them they were 21 weeks or less when they were more than 24 weeks and in some cases 30 weeks. It may be that some of the mothers knew better, but it was Gosnell who performed the abortions and who told the women it was legal to do so.

30 weeks, man...at 37 weeks ish it's generally considered full term or near enough. My nephew was born premature at 30 weeks. 9 out of 10 babies born after 28 weeks survive. I can't imagine the monster he must be to take a little baby and snip its neck with surgical scissors. Chokes me up just thinking about it. Monstrous.

There's another one like him, albeit his facility is better kept, in Boulder, Colorado. His name is Warren Hern, and he also specializes in late-term abortions, including partial-delivery abortions where the infant is delivered feet-first until only the skull remains in the vagina, at which point the spinal cord is snipped and the dead baby fully delivered and disposed of as "medical waste." And then there's the vacuum-catheter full-term abortion procedure he does where he sticks a hard catheter up into the uterus, plunges into the full-term, delivery-ready child's skull and sucks out the brains before crushing the skull with forceps before dismembering the child and removing it from the womb.

Hardly "like him". What Gosnell did is illegal. What Hern does is legal. Big difference.

[Warren Dew]

Abortion doesn't cost much, and those that can't afford $500 for an abortion, can certainly get aid and assistance to pay for it.

Dr. Gosnell wasn't offering any particular "service" or benefit to women who couldn't afford stuff. Any woman who could pay him could also pay someone else.

Gosnell was cutting corners on a lot of things, like dumping fetuses in the trash. I think it's likely that reputable providers were unable to provide the services at a market clearing price in the area he was in.

Well, if your assertion is that he was charging women lower prices, I'd like to see the evidence for that. Much of what was described wasn't even "cutting corners" - it was almost like "saving trophies" -- the guy was cutting off their feet and storing them in jars. Cost cutting measure? Much of what is described doesn't sound at all like it would save significant money, and with abortions not being particularly expensive at market prices, what's he cutting out? 10% -- so it costs $450 instead of $500?

The $500 is the average amount paid, and factors in the huge discounts negotiated by the insurance companies. If you don't have insurance, you end up paying several times that at a reputable institution.

[Coito ergo sum]

Abortion doesn't cost much, and those that can't afford $500 for an abortion, can certainly get aid and assistance to pay for it.

Dr. Gosnell wasn't offering any particular "service" or benefit to women who couldn't afford stuff. Any woman who could pay him could also pay someone else.

Gosnell was cutting corners on a lot of things, like dumping fetuses in the trash. I think it's likely that reputable providers were unable to provide the services at a market clearing price in the area he was in.

Well, if your assertion is that he was charging women lower prices, I'd like to see the evidence for that. Much of what was described wasn't even "cutting corners" - it was almost like "saving trophies" -- the guy was cutting off their feet and storing them in jars. Cost cutting measure? Much of what is described doesn't sound at all like it would save significant money, and with abortions not being particularly expensive at market prices, what's he cutting out? 10% -- so it costs $450 instead of $500?

The $500 is the average amount paid, and factors in the huge discounts negotiated by the insurance companies. If you don't have insurance, you end up paying several times that at a reputable institution.

Not correct in the least.

In 2009, the median charge for a surgical abortion at 10 weeks’ gestation was $470; but since most U.S. women obtain abortions at facilities with lower charges, the average amount paid was $451. The median cost for a medication abortion was $490 and women paid an average of $483. In 2008, just one-third of privately insured U.S. women having abortions used that coverage to pay for their procedures; it is not clear how many of their plans offered full or partial coverage for abortion, or how many women were deterred from using their coverage because of concerns about confidentiality. Among women having abortions that year, methods of payment included paid out of pocket (almost 60%), private insurance (12%), and Medicaid (20%; almost all of whom lived in the few states that use their own funds to cover medically necessary abortions). http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/a ... costs.html

Several times higher than $500 for an abortion? Not correct.

[Audley Strange]

Back on topic ...

Don't the women have a case to answer as well, or am I missing something?

Hahahah. Yeah 45 years of facile gender politics.

[Seth]

Back on topic ...

Don't the women have a case to answer as well, or am I missing something?

You mean the women seeking abortions?

No. Gosnell lied to many of them about the age of their babies, frequently telling them they were 21 weeks or less when they were more than 24 weeks and in some cases 30 weeks. It may be that some of the mothers knew better, but it was Gosnell who performed the abortions and who told the women it was legal to do so.

30 weeks, man...at 37 weeks ish it's generally considered full term or near enough. My nephew was born premature at 30 weeks. 9 out of 10 babies born after 28 weeks survive. I can't imagine the monster he must be to take a little baby and snip its neck with surgical scissors. Chokes me up just thinking about it. Monstrous.

There's another one like him, albeit his facility is better kept, in Boulder, Colorado. His name is Warren Hern, and he also specializes in late-term abortions, including partial-delivery abortions where the infant is delivered feet-first until only the skull remains in the vagina, at which point the spinal cord is snipped and the dead baby fully delivered and disposed of as "medical waste." And then there's the vacuum-catheter full-term abortion procedure he does where he sticks a hard catheter up into the uterus, plunges into the full-term, delivery-ready child's skull and sucks out the brains before crushing the skull with forceps before dismembering the child and removing it from the womb.

Hardly "like him". What Gosnell did is illegal. What Hern does is legal. Big difference.

Everybody thought what Gosnell was doing was "legal" too, which is why the Governor stymied any inspections for more than a decade.

If we've learned anything from this case it's that abortion clinics need to be very, very closely monitored and there must be mandatory safeguards to keep a doctor from performing an illegal abortion when nobody's looking. This requires frequent inspections (let's say weekly) and detailed reports, photos and genetic materials from all aborted babies where the abortion was justified by fetal abnormality. It can be redacted as to the mother's identification, but it's got to be good enough evidence to convict the doctor if he plays fast and loose with the rules like Gosnell did.

[Warren Dew]

Hardly "like him". What Gosnell did is illegal. What Hern does is legal. Big difference.

Everybody thought what Gosnell was doing was "legal" too, which is why the Governor stymied any inspections for more than a decade.

If we've learned anything from this case it's that abortion clinics need to be very, very closely monitored and there must be mandatory safeguards to keep a doctor from performing an illegal abortion when nobody's looking. This requires frequent inspections (let's say weekly) and detailed reports, photos and genetic materials from all aborted babies where the abortion was justified by fetal abnormality. It can be redacted as to the mother's identification, but it's got to be good enough evidence to convict the doctor if he plays fast and loose with the rules like Gosnell did.

There has been one known case like this in decades, despite millions of abortions per year. I think that's evidence that the case is extremely unusual, not a run of the mill case.

I think there's also evidence that Gosnell got a lot fewer inspections than the typical clinic. I agree that needs to be brought up to the normal standards of other medical clinics, dentists' offices, etc. The problem wasn't the normal level of inspections, though - the problem was that in this case, they weren't done.

[Seth]

Hardly "like him". What Gosnell did is illegal. What Hern does is legal. Big difference.

Everybody thought what Gosnell was doing was "legal" too, which is why the Governor stymied any inspections for more than a decade.

If we've learned anything from this case it's that abortion clinics need to be very, very closely monitored and there must be mandatory safeguards to keep a doctor from performing an illegal abortion when nobody's looking. This requires frequent inspections (let's say weekly) and detailed reports, photos and genetic materials from all aborted babies where the abortion was justified by fetal abnormality. It can be redacted as to the mother's identification, but it's got to be good enough evidence to convict the doctor if he plays fast and loose with the rules like Gosnell did.

There has been one known case like this in decades, despite millions of abortions per year. I think that's evidence that the case is extremely unusual, not a run of the mill case.

Nonsense. The abortion industry has been protected against scrutiny and oversight for decades, and I'm morally certain that post-birth "abortions" occur ALL THE TIME. After all, who's going to rat them out, the patient, who wanted the abortion, or the doctor who performed it?

Time for state abortion monitors to be in the operating room to document the procedure to prevent this from happening again. After all, if it saves just one innocent life it's worth it, right?

I think there's also evidence that Gosnell got a lot fewer inspections than the typical clinic. I agree that needs to be brought up to the normal standards of other medical clinics, dentists' offices, etc. The problem wasn't the normal level of inspections, though - the problem was that in this case, they weren't done.

And how many other abortion clinics are there out there going uninspected?

Maybe we should limit abortions to certified hospitals.

[Bella Fortuna]

Merge with the older thread about this? http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 0#p1411520

[Warren Dew]

Time for state abortion monitors to be in the operating room to document the procedure to prevent this from happening again. After all, if it saves just one innocent life it's worth it, right?

If you think it's worth it, feel free to pay for them out of your own pocket. It sounds like an inefficient use of my tax dollars, to me.

[Seth]

See, I said he wasn't the only one...

Crime
Texas May Have Its Own Gosnell: Houston Doc Accused of Gruesome Illegal Abortions
May. 15, 2013 10:56pm Becket Adams


Although Kermit Gosnell, the Philadelphia abortionist found guilty this week of three counts of first-degree murder, has been successfully removed from civil society, another abortion practitioner like him may be on the loose in Houston, Texas.

“Harris County authorities and the Texas Department of State Health Services are investigating a local doctor accused Wednesday by an anti-abortion group of performing late-term abortions in 2011,” the Houston Chronicle reports.

The abortionist, Douglas Karpen, has been accused by three former staffers, Deborah Edge, Gigi Aguliar, and Krystal Rodriguez, of performing several illegal abortions. Their testimony, and alleged photographic evidence, was brought to light by Operation Rescue, a pro-life watchdog.

There’s a fourth informant working with Operation Rescue, filing an affidavit about her experiences, but she prefers to remain anonymous.

“We have several people looking into the allegations,” said Sara Marie Kinney, a spokeswoman for the Harris County District Attorney’s Office.

DSHS spokeswoman Carrie Williams said in an email that the agency, which monitors Texas abortion facilities, is “aware of the allegations, and we are investigating.”

“This is a very high priority for us,” she said.

DSHS became aware of the allegations after Operation Rescue released a report containing the staffers’ testimony and photos. The cellphone photos the staffers provided the pro-life group with seem to back up their gruesome claims.

“The photos show babies that are huge, with gashes in their necks, indicating that these babies were likely born alive, then killed, just as Kermit Gosnell did at his ‘House of Horrors’ clinic in Philadelphia,” said Operation Rescue President Troy Newman.

“In fact, there are numerous similarities between Karpen and the Gosnell case, including the disregarding of complaints by the authorities that allowed both men to continue their illegal operations,” he added.

The photos are extremely gruesome, entirely sickening, and graphic. If you have the stomach for it, LifeSiteNews.com has copies of them here. But be warned.

Here’s a reported video of Karpen’s former staffers:

“In a week when serial murderer Kermit Gosnell was found guilty of killing babies, I read with disgust about the allegations of Houston-based abortionist Douglas Karpen performing illegal late-term abortions surrounded by appalling sanitary conditions in his clinic,” Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst, mindful of Gosnell’s “house of horrors,” said in a statement.

“The Harris County authorities should perform a full-scale investigation and take action against those who broke state law,” the statement adds.

The possibility that Texas may have its own Gosnell has the Texas Medical Board on alert.

Leigh Hopper, a spokeswoman for the group, said the reports on Karpen’s three clinics “raises concerns, for certain.

However, she adds, Karpen’s license is “free and clear currently.”

“Hopper declined to say whether there have been complaints lodged against Karpen; such information is not available to the public,” the Houston Chronicle notes.

“But in its online post, Operation Rescue links to a February letter that appears to show the medical board dismissing an investigation into Karpen,” the report adds.

Hopper offered a possible explanation: It “doesn’t look fake to me, and it reads like the sort of letter TMB sends out routinely.”

[MrJonno]

Nonsense. The abortion industry has been protected against scrutiny and oversight for decades, and I'm morally certain that post-birth "abortions" occur ALL THE TIME. After all, who's going to rat them out, the patient, who wanted the abortion, or the doctor who performed it?

Post-birth ending of care, of giving pain relief that has a secondary effect of shortening life can be legal where it is considered not to be in the patients best interest to treat is legal in all countries through snapping the spinal cord of course isnt