The case against guns

[Tyrannical]

It's a shame that we live in a world where there are situations where you'd need a gun. Though shooting inanimate objects is a lot of fun

Why not help the world become a safer place? I suggest execution for use of a firearm in a violent felony. Maybe make it retroactive to anyone still in jail or on probation. With about 200 gun crimes per day on average in the US, that's just 73,000 executions a year. That should take a bite out of crime

[Blind groper]

Collector

The reason those in government today are corrupt is simple. The are bought and paid for. It is no secret that the NRA have bribed many congresspeople to support them.

When American politicians are no longer acting according to the instructions of those who bribe them, some honest government may be seen.

[JimC]

Collector

The reason those in government today are corrupt is simple. The are bought and paid for. It is no secret that the NRA have bribed many congresspeople to support them.

When American politicians are no longer acting according to the instructions of those who bribe them, some honest government may be seen.

You know that Tyrannical is pushing the point that most of those US executions will be black, in his opinion...

With the unseen smiley of delight...

[Blind groper]

Jim

I was responding to Collector, not Tyrannical.

However, like you, I find it sad that people judge according to skin color, rather than individual merit.

[Collector1337]

Collector

The reason those in government today are corrupt is simple. The are bought and paid for. It is no secret that the NRA have bribed many congresspeople to support them.

When American politicians are no longer acting according to the instructions of those who bribe them, some honest government may be seen.

I generally support the NRA. They're representing my interests.

[Tyrannical]

Collector

The reason those in government today are corrupt is simple. The are bought and paid for. It is no secret that the NRA have bribed many congresspeople to support them.

When American politicians are no longer acting according to the instructions of those who bribe them, some honest government may be seen.

You know that Tyrannical is pushing the point that most of those US executions will be black, in his opinion...

With the unseen smiley of delight...

I take no joy in matters such as that, but executing criminals is an unpleasant necessity from a eugenics stand point.

[Seth]

Seth

You must have a very short memory.
We have discussed the drop in violent crime before. The key point is that it is a global phenomenon. Every nation has a falling violent crime rate. The USA is no different. This reduction is unrelated to number of guns, since it is happening everywhere.

Wrong. Now you're trying to obfuscate things by talking about "global phenomenon."

Facts are still facts. In the United States, where more law abiding citizens are permitted to lawfully carry handguns, violent crime rates of ALL types go down and stay down. Conversely, in places in the United States where citizens are forbidden to possess handguns, like Chicago, Detroit, and DC, violent crime rates remain high, and in some cases are skyrocketing...like Chicago.

Ipso facto more guns (in the hands of law abiding citizens), less violent crime (of all descriptions). This is simply an undeniable statistical fact.

What's also an undeniable statistical fact is that those law-abiding citizens who go to the trouble of obtaining a carry permit are far less likely to be involved in ANY sort of crime than their unarmed neighbors, by an enormous margin.

More guns, less crime. Fact.

[Seth]

You have a paranoid fantasy about being oppressed by corrupt people or shadowy organisations, and heroically defending yourself by using your guns...

Simply fucking weird to 99.9% of the world...

Well, the point is that by possessing guns we frighten the corrupt into not oppressing us without ever having to take direct action. It's worked pretty well for more than 200 years, especially as compared to quite literally everywhere else except perhaps Switzerland.

It also gives us the option of taking direct action if it becomes necessary. You trust in government, I trust in H&K. My trust in H&K, and my fellow 180 million American's trust in their firearms manufacturers keeps our government on its toes and in check. We like it that way.

So YOU can fuck off with your slavish attitudes and ignorant contempt.

[Seth]

It's a shame that we live in a world where there are situations where you'd need a gun. Though shooting inanimate objects is a lot of fun

Why not help the world become a safer place? I suggest execution for use of a firearm in a violent felony. Maybe make it retroactive to anyone still in jail or on probation. With about 200 gun crimes per day on average in the US, that's just 73,000 executions a year. That should take a bite out of crime

Assuming you could catch and convict them all. I prefer the shorter, quicker process of law-abiding citizens using lethal force against violent criminals when they are legally authorized to do so...like with Trayvon Martin...it short-cuts so much bureaucracy and costs way less than incarcerating murderers for 20 years while trying to put them to death.

Oh, wait, we already do that 2 million times year...Sadly, law abiding citizens are far too reticent to use lethal force when they are legally entitled to do so because of the risk and expense of a miscarriage of justice and vindictive prosecution...as in Mr. Zimmerman's case, by bleeding-heart liberal panty-waisted criminal coddling DA's.

[Seth]

Collector

The reason those in government today are corrupt is simple. The are bought and paid for. It is no secret that the NRA have bribed many congresspeople to support them.

I assume you have some actual evidence of bribery by the NRA? If you do you can win the Pulitzer Prize.

Oh, wait, you actually don't have any evidence at all of bribery by the NRA, you're just serving up more bum custard because you don't have a leg to stand on.

When American politicians are no longer acting according to the instructions of those who bribe them, some honest government may be seen.

Politicians who side with the NRA are acting according to the requirements of the Constitution, the 2nd Amendment, the wishes of their constituents, and the 5 million members of the NRA, each of whom is an individual citizen who has banded together with other like minded individuals to defend their rights.

Put up or shut up. If you have evidence, produce it. Otherwise take your bum custard and eat it.

[Blind groper]

To Seth,
Who thinks more guns means less crime.

That is true only according to John Lott, whose "work" has been discredited. The real evidence from more than one researcher, is that Lott us a fraud who invents his 'statistics'.

Murder rates inside the USA have nothing to do with local laws, since anyone who wants a gun gets a gun. But if you look at murder rates among OECD nations, the trend is clear. Fewer guns means fewer murders.

On concealed carry, the work of researchers who are not John Lott show a clear cut trend. More guns equals more gun crime.

[Collector1337]

Hopefully there's enough pictures so you can understand.

http://americangunfacts.com/

[Blind groper]

Collector

As I have been at pains to point out many times, the DGU figures quoted by John Lott, and repeated by every gun loving organisation, have been found by more honest researchers to be phony.

Harvard researchers have found that a very large percentage of DGU claims are for illegal actions, like winning an argument by pulling a gun, where no threat exists.

DGU figures vary from researcher to researcher. But if we disallow the phony figures, and disallow the 'argument winning', and disallow situations where no real risk existed, then the number shrinks very, very dramatically. Of course, that would require honest research.

On the business of NRA bribes.
This is public knowledge. It takes the form of a legal bribe called a campaign donation. I call it corruption.

[Collector1337]

Collector

As I have been at pains to point out many times, the DGU figures quoted by John Lott, and repeated by every gun loving organisation, have been found by more honest researchers to be phony.

Harvard researchers have found that a very large percentage of DGU claims are for illegal actions, like winning an argument by pulling a gun, where no threat exists.

DGU figures vary from researcher to researcher. But if we disallow the phony figures, and disallow the 'argument winning', and disallow situations where no real risk existed, then the number shrinks very, very dramatically. Of course, that would require honest research.

On the business of NRA bribes.
This is public knowledge. It takes the form of a legal bribe called a campaign donation. I call it corruption.

So, you're claiming that getting a gun pulled on you during an argument is not a life threatening situation?

[Jason]

So, you're claiming that getting a gun pulled on you during an argument is not a life threatening situation?

See.. here's the problem. If I was psychotic enough to want you dead over an argument I wouldn't haul iron then and there. I'd setup a nice spot 400+ yards from a position I can reasonably expect you to be at a given time of day, say leaving for work in the morning, and split your skull before you heard the report of my rifle.

You little wannabe beyotch. Just kidding.


I'm not kidding.



I'm coming for you.


Not really.






.. really.