Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

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MrJonno
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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by MrJonno » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:27 pm

Currently in my hotel room on holiday in Cyprus at the moment.

As for investments people are seeing it the wrong way, the banks have gone bankrupt anyone who had anything invested about E100 000 has lost absolutely everything (under E100k is unwritten by the EU).

It's not a case of the Cypriot government stealing 10%, 30%, 50% its a case of whether the Germans in a fit of generosity (protecting the international banking system) give the Cypriot government (they arent likely to get it back), 10%, 30%. 50% of people's deposits.

It's quite a strange idea of banks going bankrupt and people losing their savings, but it has happened before in the Great Depression 1929. It has very little to do with the main Euro crisis which seems to be slowly turning around . Cyprus was/is a very dodgy money laundering economy mainly from the Russians. They are everywhere here especially in Paphos. If you book a tour or service unless you ask they seem to assume you are Russian
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Mallardz
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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by Mallardz » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:34 pm

My parents went to Paphos and informed me it's become very popular among Russians.
I haven't been there in about 5 years and back then it was just lots of British people and some Frenchies.
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Tyrannical
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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by Tyrannical » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:35 pm

An interesting philosophical question.

Should a government that is in theory for the people and by the people, make the people liable for the government's insolvency?
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by Azathoth » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:02 pm

Stealing from the Russian mafia always ends well
Outside the ordered universe is that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity—the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes.

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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by JimC » Wed May 01, 2013 6:49 am

Cyprus wasted so much time, resources and energy on ethnic conflict between Greek and Turk; there is always a cost to relapsing into hominid tribalism...
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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed May 01, 2013 12:27 pm

Tyrannical wrote:An interesting philosophical question.

Should a government that is in theory for the people and by the people, make the people liable for the government's insolvency?
Yes, but banks should not be part of the government.

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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by MrJonno » Wed May 01, 2013 12:34 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:An interesting philosophical question.

Should a government that is in theory for the people and by the people, make the people liable for the government's insolvency?
Yes, but banks should not be part of the government.

But the reality is governments can't allow consumer banks to go completely under or the entire economy is going to collapse. If people go to their ATM and nothing comes out who is going to spend money on anything.

As a bank is too big to fail, its a no risk investment (for the banks owners) which is a strong argument just to nationalise the lot of them ( A couple of them were nationalised in the UK)
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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed May 01, 2013 12:40 pm

MrJonno wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:An interesting philosophical question.

Should a government that is in theory for the people and by the people, make the people liable for the government's insolvency?
Yes, but banks should not be part of the government.

But the reality is governments can't allow consumer banks to go completely under or the entire economy is going to collapse. If people go to their ATM and nothing comes out who is going to spend money on anything.
The problem is that banks are too big. The governments can require insurance, and then people can just make sure they don't have more than $100,000 in any one account (or whatever the limit is). It's not the accountholders that is the issue with bailouts. What the governments wind up having to fund is the banks themselves, because they are "too big to fail."

The culprits in the grand scheme of things are the countries that nationalize banking industries, because then they overtly place the power and resources of the state behind their bank(s). This means they can have one large, subsidized bank competing on the global stage against free market, unsubsidized banks. This places a huge pressure on the free market banks to merge and merge and merge to become large enough to compete globally. This reduces the total number of banks in free market countries and means that the government has to step in and save them when they go tits up because they are "too big to fail."

MrJonno wrote: As a bank is too big to fail, its a no risk investment (for the banks owners) which is a strong argument just to nationalise the lot of them ( A couple of them were nationalised in the UK)
Nationalizing the lot of them is the problem in the first place. The solution, really, is to make sure that banks are not too big to fail. Let them fail, protect depositors up to a certain limit with an insurance policy, and if a bank goes out of business, so be it.

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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by MrJonno » Wed May 01, 2013 5:07 pm

Lots of socialist regulation of the banks, which our last so called socialist government should have done but had their heads stuck up the banks arses instead
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Tyrannical
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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by Tyrannical » Wed May 01, 2013 5:17 pm

In the US, the Federal government insures participating bank's deposits up to $250K. Anything over that amount is your loss. What Cyprus is doing is not much different than US policy, except the US stepped in and bailed out banks.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: Cyprus: The Shape of Things to Come

Post by MrJonno » Wed May 01, 2013 8:21 pm

Main difference is the Cyprus government isn't big enough to bail out banks bigger than the country's GDP
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