Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

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Seth
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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Seth » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:22 pm

Blind groper wrote:Going to war, except in extreme situations, is the mark of total incompetence on the part of leaders.
Quite right. It seems however that incompetent politicians are the rule rather than the exception. Thus it is prudent for the citizenry to be prepared to either back up the government, or replace it if it's too incompetent but refuses to cede power.
Rarely are the results desirable. A much better strategy is the waiting game.
Channel Neville Chamberlain much?
When the USSR first developed nuclear weapons, there was a faction in the USA, and in the other western allies, which wanted to go to war against them and remove the nuclear weapons. Such an action, as Hitler discovered, is expensive in the extreme, especially in terms of the millions of lives lost. Fortunately, wiser heads prevailed, and the waiting through the Cold War eventually led to a resolution without a single bullet being fired in anger.
Except for all those bullets fired by clandestine agents of course. And hovering at the brink of global thermonuclear annihilation for a generation was not exactly a secure and comfortable situation. I remember the "duck and cover" drills in school.

Our great mistake was in not simply arresting and imprisoning every single communist sympathizer and spy in the US starting in the 1930's with the China gang who gave China to Mao by sabotaging Chiang Kai Shek's attempts to keep communism out.

During the "Cold War" we should have hung thousands more spies, saboteurs and agents of communism than just the Rosenbergs. We still should. That way the USSR might not have gotten the Bomb before our intercontinental ballistic missile system was so far in advance of theirs that we could prevent them from developing that technology...on the threat of being nuked...just as we should be doing to North Korea.
North Korea is a sad case, but attacking them would result in more human misery and more human death, than the saner option of watching and waiting. Nations, like people, change over time. We might have to wait decades to get a benign resolution, but it will come, as long as the militarists do not get the upper hand.
Can't get much more miserable than starving your own people to death because of an insane notion that everyone in the world is your enemy.

But the point is that North Korea CANNOT be permitted to field nuclear missiles, because they are insane enough to actually use them...just like the Jihadists...and so we must do whatever it takes to prevent that, even if it means nuking Pyongyang.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Seth » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:25 pm

Pappa wrote:
Seth wrote:We need to get out of the nation destroying/rebuilding cycle and just destroy our enemies and keep them destroyed so they never pose a threat again. Fuck the rebuilding part.
Unless you killed every last civilian, including woman and children, that would never work.
Nah. You just bomb infrastructure. Destroy any advanced infrastructure like electrical plants, water plants, sewer plants, industrial buildings, etc. and they go back to living in the stone age, like Kosovo. Then they are no threat to anyone outside their own borders because every time they stick their heads up and build something nice, you bomb it again.

Peasants with sharp sticks are not an international threat.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Pappa » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:34 pm

Seth wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Seth wrote:We need to get out of the nation destroying/rebuilding cycle and just destroy our enemies and keep them destroyed so they never pose a threat again. Fuck the rebuilding part.
Unless you killed every last civilian, including woman and children, that would never work.
Nah. You just bomb infrastructure. Destroy any advanced infrastructure like electrical plants, water plants, sewer plants, industrial buildings, etc. and they go back to living in the stone age, like Kosovo. Then they are no threat to anyone outside their own borders because every time they stick their heads up and build something nice, you bomb it again.

Peasants with sharp sticks are not an international threat.
Peasants with suicide bomb belts clearly are though.
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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Seth » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:41 pm

Pappa wrote:
Seth wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Seth wrote:We need to get out of the nation destroying/rebuilding cycle and just destroy our enemies and keep them destroyed so they never pose a threat again. Fuck the rebuilding part.
Unless you killed every last civilian, including woman and children, that would never work.
Nah. You just bomb infrastructure. Destroy any advanced infrastructure like electrical plants, water plants, sewer plants, industrial buildings, etc. and they go back to living in the stone age, like Kosovo. Then they are no threat to anyone outside their own borders because every time they stick their heads up and build something nice, you bomb it again.

Peasants with sharp sticks are not an international threat.
Peasants with suicide bomb belts clearly are though.
Yeah, but you have to have fertilizer plants or explosives plants...or the infrastructure to obtain explosives...to do it. And they really aren't that much of a threat as long as they aren't allowed to leave their country.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Pappa » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:55 pm

Seth wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Seth wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Seth wrote:We need to get out of the nation destroying/rebuilding cycle and just destroy our enemies and keep them destroyed so they never pose a threat again. Fuck the rebuilding part.
Unless you killed every last civilian, including woman and children, that would never work.
Nah. You just bomb infrastructure. Destroy any advanced infrastructure like electrical plants, water plants, sewer plants, industrial buildings, etc. and they go back to living in the stone age, like Kosovo. Then they are no threat to anyone outside their own borders because every time they stick their heads up and build something nice, you bomb it again.

Peasants with sharp sticks are not an international threat.
Peasants with suicide bomb belts clearly are though.
Yeah, but you have to have fertilizer plants or explosives plants...or the infrastructure to obtain explosives...to do it. And they really aren't that much of a threat as long as they aren't allowed to leave their country.
That doesn't seem at all sustainable.
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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Seth » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:29 pm

Pappa wrote: That doesn't seem at all sustainable.
Automated satellite surveillance combined with computer-guided artillery and space-based kinetic weapons. Anything moved in the no-go zone and it gets fired on. Plus, if residents escape and cause trouble, we bomb the nation again. If they want to escape and be refugees and assimilate peacefully into another culture, fine. Soon enough the country will be populated only with zealots, and then we can use tailored virus bioweapons to eliminate their gene line without harming anything else. Then we can repopulate the country with peaceful people.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by aspire1670 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:53 pm

Seth wrote:
Pappa wrote: That doesn't seem at all sustainable.
Automated satellite surveillance combined with computer-guided artillery and space-based kinetic weapons. Anything moved in the no-go zone and it gets fired on. Plus, if residents escape and cause trouble, we bomb the nation again. If they want to escape and be refugees and assimilate peacefully into another culture, fine. Soon enough the country will be populated only with zealots, and then we can use tailored virus bioweapons to eliminate their gene line without harming anything else. Then we can repopulate the country with peaceful people.
Will the peaceful people be carrying concealed weapons?
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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Seth » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:40 pm

aspire1670 wrote:
Seth wrote:
Pappa wrote: That doesn't seem at all sustainable.
Automated satellite surveillance combined with computer-guided artillery and space-based kinetic weapons. Anything moved in the no-go zone and it gets fired on. Plus, if residents escape and cause trouble, we bomb the nation again. If they want to escape and be refugees and assimilate peacefully into another culture, fine. Soon enough the country will be populated only with zealots, and then we can use tailored virus bioweapons to eliminate their gene line without harming anything else. Then we can repopulate the country with peaceful people.
Will the peaceful people be carrying concealed weapons?
One would hope so. That way they can eliminate the dangerous radicals and rejoin civilized society and none of the above extreme measures will be needed. You see, in most cases, when the citizenry is well-armed, tyrants and despots never have the chance to take power because they are put down by the good people before they can do so. Not always of course, but usually.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Seth » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:09 am

Gosh, it must annoy the shit out of the hoplophobes when this happens:
Crime
Alleged Intruder Attacks Elderly Woman With a Club — Her Husband Responds With a Revolver
Apr. 28, 2013 8:46pm Erica Ritz

Music Store Owner Shoots Assailant After He Attacks Wife With a Club in Pennsylvania

(Photo: KDKA-TV)

Police say a Pennsylvania business owner fatally shot an intruder after the man attacked the business owner’s wife with a club.

Sylvia and Alfred Armen were working in the music store they own, CBS Pittsburgh/KDKA reports, when the suspect came in and looked at some of the merchandise. He reportedly left for a few minutes, then came back with a wooden club.

Without delay, he allegedly struck Sylvia in the head, before “Mr. Armen came to her rescue,” Bethel Park Police Chief John Mackey said.

The Armens are both in their seventies.
Music Store Owner Shoots Assailant After He Attacks Wife With a Club in Pennsylvania

(Photo: KDKA-TV)

Alfred reportedly engaged in a physical struggle with the assailant before fatally shooting him with a revolver.

Authorities aren’t saying whether the couple knew the suspect, but he is described as a white male in his early thirties.

Sylvia and Alfred were both hospitalized for their injuries, but are expected to be alright.

“I think they’re in pretty decent shape considering what occurred here today,” Mackey described.

Police have not released a motive for the suspect.

Watch CBS Pittsburgh/KDKA’s full account of the story, below:
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Jason » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:21 am

Seth wrote:
Pappa wrote: That doesn't seem at all sustainable.
Automated satellite surveillance combined with computer-guided artillery and space-based kinetic weapons. Anything moved in the no-go zone and it gets fired on. Plus, if residents escape and cause trouble, we bomb the nation again. If they want to escape and be refugees and assimilate peacefully into another culture, fine. Soon enough the country will be populated only with zealots, and then we can use tailored virus bioweapons to eliminate their gene line without harming anything else. Then we can repopulate the country with peaceful people.
What. The. Fuck. If being a 'hoplophobe' means being opposed to this sort of unprecedented oppressive imposition of 'law', then I'm happy to call myself such.


Really.. what the hell are you talking about? Freedom from all save your own version of tyranny?

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by rainbow » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:39 am

Seth wrote:Gosh, it must annoy the shit out of the hoplophobes when this happens:
Does this make you a hoplophobephobe?

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Blind groper » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:38 pm

Seth continuously tells us that lack of guns means dictatorships and oppressive government. He has offered not one shred of actual empirical evidence for this religious blind faith belief, and ignores the real evidence out there, that shows the modern world does not work that way. Sadly, there are many people who cannot think rationally, and simply follow the teachings of their religion. For Seth, this is the Church of the Gun, and its prophets, the NRA.
For every human action, there is a rationalisation and a reason. Only sometimes do they coincide.

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Seth » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:49 pm

Blind groper wrote:Seth continuously tells us that lack of guns means dictatorships and oppressive government. He has offered not one shred of actual empirical evidence for this religious blind faith belief, and ignores the real evidence out there, that shows the modern world does not work that way. Sadly, there are many people who cannot think rationally, and simply follow the teachings of their religion. For Seth, this is the Church of the Gun, and its prophets, the NRA.
I've offered several. History offers a panoply, including explicitly England, where King after King disarmed disfavored groups so that they would be incapable of rebellion.

The most salient example is, of course, Weimar Germany circa 1936.

So, once again you tell bald-faced lies as a lame substitute for actual rational argument.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Blind groper » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:24 pm

Seth

The world is changing at an exponential rate. Modern democracies cannot be compared to Weimar Germany or England under despotic kings.

You have offered exactly zero evidence that is relevant to today's world.
For every human action, there is a rationalisation and a reason. Only sometimes do they coincide.

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Re: Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

Post by Collector1337 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:53 pm

Blind groper wrote:Seth

The world is changing at an exponential rate. Modern democracies cannot be compared to Weimar Germany or England under despotic kings.

You have offered exactly zero evidence that is relevant to today's world.
It's called human nature.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

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