The Abortion House of Horrors Case

[Tero]

So should we pay these welfare moms $2000 a pop for a little cottage industry? Must be thousands of couples in line. We could even feed them proper food for 9 months.

[MrJonno]

Yes, unless there is a prearranged adoption. Every child should be a wanted child.

Why would a woman want to put herself through months of pain and emotional bonding and then give up a child, an abortion is a far less stressful option for anyone sentient involved.

Because there are other women out there that dream of nothing more than being a mother. I'm sure the bonding happens with toddlers and older children, but there's something extra special about bonding with a baby. If I could give that to a mothers that couldn't have her own baby, that would be way better than an abortion. Kind of like being a surrogate, which is something I would definitely do if I had a close friend of family member that asked me to.

Surrogacy in my opinion should be illegal, sure it works well for some people but the ability for it to be abused by all parties involved is just too great. Don't know what the rules are in the US but in the UK its 'expenses' only but those expenses tend to be a lot more than the person could ever earn in a year

[Kristie]

Yes, unless there is a prearranged adoption. Every child should be a wanted child.

Why would a woman want to put herself through months of pain and emotional bonding and then give up a child, an abortion is a far less stressful option for anyone sentient involved.

Because there are other women out there that dream of nothing more than being a mother. I'm sure the bonding happens with toddlers and older children, but there's something extra special about bonding with a baby. If I could give that to a mothers that couldn't have her own baby, that would be way better than an abortion. Kind of like being a surrogate, which is something I would definitely do if I had a close friend of family member that asked me to.

Surrogacy in my opinion should be illegal, sure it works well for some people but the ability for it to be abused by all parties involved is just too great. Don't know what the rules are in the US but in the UK its 'expenses' only but those expenses tend to be a lot more than the person could ever earn in a year

Just because some people abuse a situation, that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

[MrJonno]

Just because some people abuse a situation, that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Actually depending on what the cost to society that is a perfectly good reason to make something illegal.

Never understood the logic of if Person A can do X responsibly than X should legal just makes no sense

[Kristie]

Just because some people abuse a situation, that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Actually depending on what the cost to society that is a perfectly good reason to make something illegal.

Never understood the logic of if Person A can do X responsibly than X should legal just makes no sense

Well, I would agree that it's not always logical, but in a lot of cases it makes perfect sense.
Most adults can drink alcohol responsibly. But, not all can. Does that mean alcohol should be banned? Of course not! States just regulate it as best as possible (legal blood alcohol levels for driving, age minimums for purchasing and drinking, age limits on entering bars).
Surrogacy is very beneficial in most cases. But, like most things, there are people out there that can and will screw it up and abuse it.

[MrJonno]

Need to balance the benefits and risks on a national scale, with alcohol banning and enforcing it causes more problems than it solves through in principle there is nothing wrong with it.

The benefits of surrogacy is if it goes well someone who wants a baby gets one, the negatives is you end up with everyone suing everyone else over ownership and turning human life into a commodity. Not convinced the good outweighs the bad.

Now if you want an even harder moral question, should public health services fund fertility treatment ?

[Kristie]

Alcohol cause drunk driving, violence of all sorts, leads to alcoholism, ruins families, costs people their jobs... Of course, people make the choice to have a drink. But, people should also be able to make the choice to have another woman carry their child her in womb.

The benefits of surrogacy is if it goes well someone who wants a baby gets one, the negatives is you end up with everyone suing everyone else over ownership and turning human life into a commodity. Not convinced the good outweighs the bad.

You've obviously never been a parent that desperately wants to have their own, biological child.

[MrJonno]

You've obviously never been a parent that desperately wants to have their own, biological child

A parent not being able to have a child may hurt the the individual but it doesn't hurt society as a whole , more concerned about people having kids who can't cope with them than parents wanting kids and not being able to get them

[hadespussercats]

I don't know about others, but I was kind of hoping he would not be charged with murder if it were only nonviable fetuses involved.

Agreed.

[hadespussercats]

So should we pay these welfare moms $2000 a pop for a little cottage industry? Must be thousands of couples in line. We could even feed them proper food for 9 months.

Well, that sort of thing does happen, privately. Not usually welfare moms doing it, though-- I think people who are paying are pretty choosy about whose DNA they're fostering, and there's a lot of classism involved in that.

[Warren Dew]

You've obviously never been a parent that desperately wants to have their own, biological child

A parent not being able to have a child may hurt the the individual but it doesn't hurt society as a whole , more concerned about people having kids who can't cope with them than parents wanting kids and not being able to get them

If the parents would be able to bring a child up to be an upstanding and productive member of society, which most welfare moms are not, absolutely that benefits society as a whole.

Not sure which comments are about surrogacy and which are about prearranged adoptions, but surrogacy in the U.S. goes for about $20k a pop, and it's mostly responsible working class woemen who do it. There are hundreds or maybe thousands of cases a year, and there doesn't seem to be any particularly high rate of legal problems - probably lower than for regular adoptions.

Prearranged adoptions are much chancier, as often the biological mother may change her mind at the last minute, sometimes several times.

[Tero]

So should we pay these welfare moms $2000 a pop for a little cottage industry? Must be thousands of couples in line. We could even feed them proper food for 9 months.

Well, that sort of thing does happen, privately. Not usually welfare moms doing it, though-- I think people who are paying are pretty choosy about whose DNA they're fostering, and there's a lot of classism involved in that.

Nah, just crank out the babies and rate them
-colicy
-sleeps 8 hours
-looks normal

Then people do an eBay bid on them.

[hadespussercats]

So should we pay these welfare moms $2000 a pop for a little cottage industry? Must be thousands of couples in line. We could even feed them proper food for 9 months.

Well, that sort of thing does happen, privately. Not usually welfare moms doing it, though-- I think people who are paying are pretty choosy about whose DNA they're fostering, and there's a lot of classism involved in that.

Nah, just crank out the babies and rate them
-colicy
-sleeps 8 hours
-looks normal

Then people do an eBay bid on them.

Definitely Ebay, though-- not Craigslist. CL is sketchy. And Ebay gets higher prices.

[JimC]

All this makes my life of a fairly standard marriage and 2 kids who we loved and turned out well look marginal...

[MrJonno]

Prearranged adoptions are much chancier, as often the biological mother may change her mind at the last minute, sometimes several times.

Do those still happen?, I thought it died out in the 60's?. Very few babies are adopted at least in the UK as few women want to get go through a pregnancy and then give up their babies. It only happened in the past due to poor availability of abortion/shame in pregnancy generally with the aid of religious adoption agencies which no longer exist at least in the UK.

Anyway I don't care who has an abortion, the worst that can happen is the person having it my have emotional problems afterwards, who has a baby affects me personally.

It's why I've never understood this right to choice/right to life arguments, as a reasonably civilised person I pay taxes to look after kids who really should be looked after by their parents but I would rather not have to and anything that reduces the numbers of future criminals/unemployed in a humane manner is good by me.