Donglegate! The unfortunate progeny of Elevatorgate.

[Audley Strange]

I don't see how any individual Muslim should feel responsible for calling out the actions of extremists. I don't see how they're any more responsible for their nutters than I am. Likewise women.

No I agree they are not responsible for the nutters, but by not condemning the actions of such nutters they allow the nutters both legitimacy and to frame any discussion around their supposed shared beliefs, giving a skewed view to the outside world in which all are looked upon as suspicious. They are neither obliged to nor would I think their silence is complicity, however if someone is claiming to speak on my behalf and acts like a tit, I'll call them out, I don't see what the problem with women doing that is.

[Pappa]

We are, indeed, all rape enablers.

[Audley Strange]

We are, indeed, all rape enablers.

?

[Pappa]

We are, indeed, all rape enablers.

?

Sorry, I was responding to the previous post. Mobile posting with a crap connection.

[Pappa]

I don't see how any individual Muslim should feel responsible for calling out the actions of extremists. I don't see how they're any more responsible for their nutters than I am. Likewise women.

No I agree they are not responsible for the nutters, but by not condemning the actions of such nutters they allow the nutters both legitimacy and to frame any discussion around their supposed shared beliefs, giving a skewed view to the outside world in which all are looked upon as suspicious. They are neither obliged to nor would I think their silence is complicity, however if someone is claiming to speak on my behalf and acts like a tit, I'll call them out, I don't see what the problem with women doing that is.

Yeah, that's fine. You'd call them out. So would some others. But nobody has any kind of obligation or responsibility in that regard (as you said). But by saying the give legitimacy to nutters by not speaking out, you definitely imply they have some responsibility based on their connection. My point is that "womanhood" shouldn't really be a classification that matters with regards to your opinions or actions about/towards crazy fuckers who happen to be women.

[Audley Strange]

Ah yes, I see now, good point. I agree. Upon reflection, it doesn't matter anyway since those who speak out against them are their minds the worst offenders of all, ideological traitors and treated with the same invective.

I meant not to imply anything of the sort, other than if something is bereft of reasonable voices, the only voices we'll hear of it are unreasonable ones. Not a responsibility more a matter of fact.

[DaveDodo007]

Ah yes, I see now, good point. I agree. Upon reflection, it doesn't matter anyway since those who speak out against them are their minds the worst offenders of all, ideological traitors and treated with the same invective.

I meant not to imply anything of the sort, other than if something is bereft of reasonable voices, the only voices we'll hear of it are unreasonable ones. Not a responsibility more a matter of fact.

EllenBeth Wachs did this and even went to P Z' blog to point this out and got torn a new one for it. She even has a post up about it on her Blog mycatsourmygods I think it's called. Pharyngula, promoting the radical idea that women are people unless they disagree with Myers of course, then they are punchbags.

[JimC]

I don't see how any individual Muslim should feel responsible for calling out the actions of extremists. I don't see how they're any more responsible for their nutters than I am. Likewise women.

Muslims are self-proclaimed members of a group with a collective ethos and (supposedly) a set of beliefs in common. Muslim terrorists invariably justify their barbarities as being in the service of Islam. If other muslims disagree with their actions, but say nothing, they are effectively allowing a minority to categorise their shared group as barbaric.

[Hermit]

I don't see how any individual Muslim should feel responsible for calling out the actions of extremists. I don't see how they're any more responsible for their nutters than I am. Likewise women.

Muslims are self-proclaimed members of a group with a collective ethos and (supposedly) a set of beliefs in common. Muslim terrorists invariably justify their barbarities as being in the service of Islam. If other muslims disagree with their actions, but say nothing, they are effectively allowing a minority to categorise their shared group as barbaric.

Like catholics, anglicans, protestants etc are tarred with the same brush as is the Westboro Baptist Church because we don't hear the former sustainedly and strongly disassociate themselves from the latter?

[JimC]

I don't see how any individual Muslim should feel responsible for calling out the actions of extremists. I don't see how they're any more responsible for their nutters than I am. Likewise women.

Muslims are self-proclaimed members of a group with a collective ethos and (supposedly) a set of beliefs in common. Muslim terrorists invariably justify their barbarities as being in the service of Islam. If other muslims disagree with their actions, but say nothing, they are effectively allowing a minority to categorise their shared group as barbaric.

Like catholics, anglicans, protestants etc are tarred with the same brush as is the Westboro Baptist Church because we don't hear the former sustainedly and strongly disassociate themselves from the latter?

What do you mean by "we", white man?

But, to a degree, perhaps yes - I would like to see mainstream liberal christianity giving those arseholes a very public serve. (They may well have done so, and I simply haven't spotted it in the news).

However, as vile as the Westboro Baptist Church and it's members are, they are not blowing people up, stoning women or beheading non-believers. Perhaps, deep down they would like to, but their religious fanaticism is constrained by living in a society that has wrestled power from religion a long time ago...

[Hermit]

I would like to see mainstream liberal christianity giving those arseholes a very public serve. (They may well have done so, and I simply haven't spotted it in the news).

They have, but my cat sneezed just when the broadcast was made.

However, as vile as the Westboro Baptist Church and it's members are, they are not blowing people up, stoning women or beheading non-believers. Perhaps, deep down they would like to, but their religious fanaticism is constrained by living in a society that has wrestled power from religion a long time ago...

Which part of "like catholics, anglicans, protestants etc are tarred with the same brush as is the Westboro Baptist Church because we don't hear the former sustainedly and strongly disassociate themselves from the latter?" do you have a problem comprehending?

[Jason]

Holy fuck am I blitzed. Bacaradi 151 ftw!


What was this threa 'bout? again?

[JimC]

I would like to see mainstream liberal christianity giving those arseholes a very public serve. (They may well have done so, and I simply haven't spotted it in the news).

They have, but my cat sneezed just when the broadcast was made.

However, as vile as the Westboro Baptist Church and it's members are, they are not blowing people up, stoning women or beheading non-believers. Perhaps, deep down they would like to, but their religious fanaticism is constrained by living in a society that has wrestled power from religion a long time ago...

Which part of "like catholics, anglicans, protestants etc are tarred with the same brush as is the Westboro Baptist Church because we don't hear the former sustainedly and strongly disassociate themselves from the latter?" do you have a problem comprehending?

Well, given I responded "But, to a degree, perhaps yes", I think I did indeed comprehend, albeit without the completeness you may want......

Does the fact that other christians may not have given Westborough as big a serve as they deserve change the reasonable criticism of the acceptance of mainstream Islam of its fanatical brethren?

They both are at fault...

[Jason]

Public serving of assholes it is then. We can all agree. Now to the point of the sex of the assholes in question..

[Hermit]

Well, given I responded "But, to a degree, perhaps yes", I think I did indeed comprehend...

Or not. Re-read this slowly:

Muslims are self-proclaimed members of a group with a collective ethos and (supposedly) a set of beliefs in common. Muslim terrorists invariably justify their barbarities as being in the service of Islam. If other muslims disagree with their actions, but say nothing, they are effectively allowing a minority to categorise their shared group as barbaric.

Like catholics, anglicans, protestants etc are tarred with the same brush as is the Westboro Baptist Church because we don't hear the former sustainedly and strongly disassociate themselves from the latter?

If you still don't get it, I'll be happy to reword this exchange to help you out of your comprehension problem.