Donglegate! The unfortunate progeny of Elevatorgate.

[Audley Strange]

So was there a rule in place stating that all panel members should be male? Or is this just a bit of P.R. which will lead to a lot of empty chairs or third raters to fill them? The point being if there was not a rule in place, it would seem that perhaps women have not been that interested in actively taking part.

What happens if women in the audience complaining about no women on a panel are in a situation where no women of any worth to be on such a panel would volunteer? Should we just scrap everything that does not have gender parity or make it mandatory?

[SteveB]

Pop quiz: which one of these three images could you show to a woman in a convention? You could get fired if you don't answer correctly.

[charlou]

Bingo!

This is exactly the point. There is a world of difference between actual sexism and exaggerating a trivial event for your own gain under the guise of sexism. The latter is a cynical tantrum tactic to get what you want by exploiting peoples emotive vulnerabilities. The reason that such events are blown out of proportion should evince that there is no other events that happen that do not need to be exaggerated.

If this is the "women speaking out" about T-Shirts and Coffee invites and "dongle" jokes, then I don't think it unreasonable to suggest that their reportage, once you cut through their ideological drama rhetoric is that the convention scene is not a hot-bed of Rape enabling misogynists but at worst clumsy nerds.

Aye.

[charlou]

And if there is real abuse going on, trivial self-indulgence is not helping resolve it.

[Robert_S]

And if there is real abuse going on, trivial self-indulgence is not helping resolve it.

And it feeds the suspicion that there isn't any abuse or that reported abuse is likely to be frivolous.

[Bella Fortuna]

And if there is real abuse going on, trivial self-indulgence is not helping resolve it.

And it feeds the suspicion that there isn't any abuse or that reported abuse is likely to be frivolous.

(both)

[Audley Strange]

Imagine if I went to a mumsnet convention heard some women talking about abortion, shouted that they were a bunch of baby-killing sluts and then complained that the mumsnet and female reaction reaction was proof of rampant misandry.

The issues in discussion are about as serious as that. I contend that such are actually detrimental and expose nothing about human behaviour other than some people have a desperate need to be the centre of attention. If anything it will have a chilling effect where people will be more cautious about hiring women in case they go off the rails about some trivial shit and people start losing careers. Women should be the first calling this shit out as far as I'm concerned. Tyranny of the perpetually offended is not the sole province of religion it seems.

[JimC]

Bingo!

This is exactly the point. There is a world of difference between actual sexism and exaggerating a trivial event for your own gain under the guise of sexism. The latter is a cynical tantrum tactic to get what you want by exploiting peoples emotive vulnerabilities. The reason that such events are blown out of proportion should evince that there is no other events that happen that do not need to be exaggerated.

If this is the "women speaking out" about T-Shirts and Coffee invites and "dongle" jokes, then I don't think it unreasonable to suggest that their reportage, once you cut through their ideological drama rhetoric is that the convention scene is not a hot-bed of Rape enabling misogynists but at worst clumsy nerds.

And additionally, you get the "little boy crying wolf" effect. Enough cases where trivial events have been treated as major sexual assaults may mean less response to the real thing when it happens...

[Audley Strange]

It simply sows distrust and drives a wedge rather than bring people together. Which is exactly the point.

[Hermit]

"Dear Muslima..."

[Coito ergo sum]

That said, a person should feel able to attend a convention without being gratuitously groped, ffs. If that is happening, of course something needs to be done.

I wholeheartedly agree. HOWEVER, if gratuitous groping were the real, extant problem, then why are all the public complaints that we hear about amounting to dongle jokes, requests for coffee and mockery of jewelry and other general, vague and rather tame complaints?

The answer almost invariably is "well, harassment is so commonplace that we all know it goes on..." -- which, of course, means the next question is -- then why don't more women complain of more serious instances?

And, then some folks state that the instances like jewelry mocking and coffee invites and dongle jokes really ARE serious, and that if you don't agree with that, then you "just don't get it," and/or you're a "dudebro" whose a "douchebag," and such.

[Pappa]

Imagine if I went to a mumsnet convention heard some women talking about abortion, shouted that they were a bunch of baby-killing sluts and then complained that the mumsnet and female reaction reaction was proof of rampant misandry.

The issues in discussion are about as serious as that. I contend that such are actually detrimental and expose nothing about human behaviour other than some people have a desperate need to be the centre of attention. If anything it will have a chilling effect where people will be more cautious about hiring women in case they go off the rails about some trivial shit and people start losing careers. Women should be the first calling this shit out as far as I'm concerned. Tyranny of the perpetually offended is not the sole province of religion it seems.

Why should women be held responsible for calling out the tyranny of some individual women?

[Audley Strange]

Imagine if I went to a mumsnet convention heard some women talking about abortion, shouted that they were a bunch of baby-killing sluts and then complained that the mumsnet and female reaction reaction was proof of rampant misandry.

The issues in discussion are about as serious as that. I contend that such are actually detrimental and expose nothing about human behaviour other than some people have a desperate need to be the centre of attention. If anything it will have a chilling effect where people will be more cautious about hiring women in case they go off the rails about some trivial shit and people start losing careers. Women should be the first calling this shit out as far as I'm concerned. Tyranny of the perpetually offended is not the sole province of religion it seems.

Why should women be held responsible for calling out the tyranny of some individual women?

Why should Islam be held responsible for calling out the insanity of some individual Islamists? Because if they don't then they are allowing such extreme people to represent them.

[Pappa]

I don't see how any individual Muslim should feel responsible for calling out the actions of extremists. I don't see how they're any more responsible for their nutters than I am. Likewise women.

[Jason]

I don't see how any individual Muslim should feel responsible for calling out the actions of extremists. I don't see how they're any more responsible for their nutters than I am. Likewise women.

^Agree

This may eventually come around to the point that these new feminists are trying to make an entire group (men) responsible for the actions of a few. We (men) must tar and feather anyone who they call out or be held as guilty as them. Disagreeing or raising issue with their claims only damns you further. Inquisition I tell you.

I think we had a recent experience with this no?