Guns Because

[Jason]

Shhh.. don't shatter their nationalistic delusions Groper.

They've got the guns now.

[Gallstones]

Montana Governor signed Senate Bill 145 into law Thurs 03.28.13

The governor also signed a bill Thursday sought by gun advocates that would make the state's list of concealed weapon permit holders confidential.

Senate Bill 145, introduced by state Senator Frederick Moore (R-20), provides important confidentiality and privacy protection for concealed weapon permit holders. SB 145 passed in the state Senate by a 37 -13 vote on January 31 and passed in the state House by an 88-9 vote on March 13.

[JimC]

Just a little easier to gun someone down in Montana...

Crazy fucks...

[Seth]

Just a little easier to gun someone down in Montana...

Crazy fucks...

Please explain how keeping ccw permit information confidential to law enforcement makes it easier to gun someone down in Montana.

All it does is keep hoplophobe zealots from infringing on the privacy of law-abiding citizens who have gone to the trouble of getting a permit.

[Blind groper]

To Seth

I have demonstrated earlier, with proper references, that states with significant numbers of concealed carry permits have a higher rate of gun crime than states without.

While I appreciate that the Great Gun Fraud, John Lott, has claimed the opposite, that claim has not stood up to peer review.

[Seth]

To Seth

I have demonstrated earlier, with proper references, that states with significant numbers of concealed carry permits have a higher rate of gun crime than states without.

While I appreciate that the Great Gun Fraud, John Lott, has claimed the opposite, that claim has not stood up to peer review.

No you haven't. You just think you have.

[orpheus]

To Seth

I have demonstrated earlier, with proper references, that states with significant numbers of concealed carry permits have a higher rate of gun crime than states without.

While I appreciate that the Great Gun Fraud, John Lott, has claimed the opposite, that claim has not stood up to peer review.

No you haven't. You just think you have.

Oh, now that's a devastating rejoinder.

[Blind groper]

Oh, now that's a devastating rejoinder.

Just standard Seth debating technique.

"You are wrong!"

"No, I am right."

"No, you are wrong."

"No, I am right."

Does that remind you of something? Like a couple of kids squabbling? Intelligence and rational thinking need to be a part of it.

[Blind groper]

Oh, now that's a devastating rejoinder.

Just standard Seth debating technique.

"You are wrong!"

"No, I am right."

"No, you are wrong."

"No, I am right."

Does that remind you of something? Like a couple of kids squabbling? Intelligence and rational thinking need not be a part of it.

[Coito ergo sum]

To Seth

I have demonstrated earlier, with proper references, that states with significant numbers of concealed carry permits have a higher rate of gun crime than states without.

While I appreciate that the Great Gun Fraud, John Lott, has claimed the opposite, that claim has not stood up to peer review.

This has not actually been demonstrated, as far as I can tell. What references are you referring to? Many states with very liberal gun laws have low gun crime rates, like New Hampshire, Vermont, North Dakota, Iowa, Idaho, Maine, Utah, South Dakota, Montana, Colorado, Washington, etc.

[Seth]

To Seth

I have demonstrated earlier, with proper references, that states with significant numbers of concealed carry permits have a higher rate of gun crime than states without.

While I appreciate that the Great Gun Fraud, John Lott, has claimed the opposite, that claim has not stood up to peer review.

No you haven't. You just think you have.

Oh, now that's a devastating rejoinder.

It's all the claim is worth.

[Seth]

Oh, now that's a devastating rejoinder.

Just standard Seth debating technique.

"You are wrong!"

"No, I am right."

"No, you are wrong."

"No, I am right."

Does that remind you of something? Like a couple of kids squabbling? Intelligence and rational thinking need to be a part of it.

Problem is that I've presented numerous arguments that you simply ignore or elide, the primary argument being that the right to individual self defense is not subject to statistical analysis of the abusive use of firearms. You've never once bothered to address this because you know you can't make a cogent argument for disarming one person because of the bad behavior of another.

[Seth]

To Seth

I have demonstrated earlier, with proper references, that states with significant numbers of concealed carry permits have a higher rate of gun crime than states without.

While I appreciate that the Great Gun Fraud, John Lott, has claimed the opposite, that claim has not stood up to peer review.

This has not actually been demonstrated, as far as I can tell. What references are you referring to? Many states with very liberal gun laws have low gun crime rates, like New Hampshire, Vermont, North Dakota, Iowa, Idaho, Maine, Utah, South Dakota, Montana, Colorado, Washington, etc.

He pointed to a single study from Harvard, from a well-known anti-gun activist, that claims that Lott and Kleck's work is faulty. Lott, however, addressed all the claims made and debunked them by showing that the statistic analysis of the opposition was fraudulent.

[Gallstones]

Montana House Bill 228 04.09]

A lot of Montana gun law is contained in this Bill. Some might find this an informative and/or interesting read.

For example:

Section 9. Justifiable use of force -- burden of proof. In a criminal trial, when the defendant has offered evidence of justifiable use of force, the state has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant's actions were not justified.

The link is to the text of the last amendment to SECTIONS 45-3-103, 45-8-321, AND 46-6-502, MCA
It includes the previous text as strikeout and the new text.

So, how many people have been "gunned down"--legally under this statute--since April 2009?
How many firearm homicides has there been during that time?

This source only mentions murders and does not break them down by weapon or means.

Per 100K
2009 3.3
2010 2.5
2011 2.8


I don't see any increase in "gunning downs" that might corrolate with Montana Castle Doctrine.

[Blind groper]

This has not actually been demonstrated, as far as I can tell. What references are you referring to? Many states with very liberal gun laws have low gun crime rates, like New Hampshire, Vermont, North Dakota, Iowa, Idaho, Maine, Utah, South Dakota, Montana, Colorado, Washington, etc.

The Washington Post points out that gun crimes have been falling over the past few years. This happened some time after concealed carry laws were issued, which permitted gun nuts like John Lott to claim cause and effect. But, the same drop in crime has happened all over the world and in many American states where no concealed carry laws were enacted, which makes those conclusions garbage.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... _blog.html