Guns Used.....cont

[aspire1670]

He's retired and, if memory serves, he stated he was 50-something a few years ago.

And you believe any of that because...

And you believe Aspire because...???

I'm like George Wahington, I cannot tell a lie, young Seth.

[Seth]

He's retired and, if memory serves, he stated he was 50-something a few years ago.

And you believe any of that because...

And you believe Aspire because...???

I'm like George Wahington, I cannot tell a lie, young Seth.

What an interesting ass-ertion, since just about the only thing you do is lie.

[aspire1670]

He's retired and, if memory serves, he stated he was 50-something a few years ago.

And you believe any of that because...

And you believe Aspire because...???

I'm like George Wahington, I cannot tell a lie, young Seth.

What an interesting ass-ertion, since just about the only thing you do is lie.

And your evidence for this ass-ertion is..........?

[Robert_S]

Self-reliant individual is that like that other mysterious species the 'law abiding citizen'

I understand it's a foreign concept to you, and I'm not going to bother to educate you because you're uneducable. First crisis that comes along and you'll be dead anyway, so why bother?

If society dies so do I, so its a good reason to pay your taxes on time

We are, to a large degree dependant on society and it is worth preserving. Regular food, medicine, utilities, all great stuff.

But what I hear is you making a positive virtue of this dependence. I hear you and it is in stark contrast to all the great artists, musicians, scientists, writers, and anyone else who has a strong enough sense of self to do or make something new and worthwhile.

There is much to be said for an increased attitude of self reliance. For one thing, it leads to a lessening of the strain on public resources. If you can help yourself, you have a greater chance of being available to help your neighbours in a pinch.

If society dies, you die. Fine. But if society is sick or injured, are you just as sick and injured or are you healthy and helping your society heal?

[MrJonno]

But what I hear is you making a positive virtue of this dependence. I hear you and it is in stark contrast to all the great artists, musicians, scientists, writers, and anyone else who has a strong enough sense of self to do or make something new and worthwhile

Being dependent isnt a positive virtue, but nor is pretending to be (no one actually is) independent. What is positive is contributing to the society you live in, ie trying to get a job pay taxes, obey the law (most of the time).

Independent/self reliant is usually just code for arrogant self obsessed and often dangerous to those around them

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Self-reliant individual is that like that other mysterious species the 'law abiding citizen'

In Seth's world, self reliant means managing the family ranch and relying on state enforced property law to remain in secure possession of inherited land. Although he will stoutly maintain that self reliance equals teh gunz.

While sucking off the society he rejects. Parasitic seems to work nicely for that mindset.

[Seth]

What an interesting ass-ertion, since just about the only thing you do is lie.

And your evidence for this ass-ertion is..........?

Ipse dixit, quod erat demonstrandum...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Bullshit walks.

[Seth]

Self-reliant individual is that like that other mysterious species the 'law abiding citizen'

I understand it's a foreign concept to you, and I'm not going to bother to educate you because you're uneducable. First crisis that comes along and you'll be dead anyway, so why bother?

If society dies so do I, so its a good reason to pay your taxes on time

It's much worse than that, if society is DISRUPTED for more than a week or two, be it by war or natural disaster, you will die. Paying taxes doesn't help when the government is incapable of saving you, which happens all the time.

Just ask the residents of Phuket, Thailand.

[Seth]

Bullshit walks.

Really? I thought you were confined to a wheelchair.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No, that's your morals.

[Seth]

No, that's your morals.

Naughty!

[aspire1670]

What an interesting ass-ertion, since just about the only thing you do is lie.

And your evidence for this ass-ertion is..........?

Ipse dixit, quod erat demonstrandum...

I asked for evidence to back up your ass-ertion, young Seth, not for a demonstration that you suck at Latin. Although it is always amusing to watch you shoot yourself in the foot. Again.

[MrJonno]

It's much worse than that, if society is DISRUPTED for more than a week or two, be it by war or natural disaster, you will die. Paying taxes doesn't help when the government is incapable of saving you, which happens all the time

If the British government can't get order back in a couple of days its unlikely it ever will, time to seek refugee status in somewhere that civilization still exists

[Blind groper]

Society is not easy to destroy. The story of Hong Kong is quite inspiring.

Hong Kong was occupied by Japan during WWII. It was, of course, in theory, a British territory, but the Japanese sent the British governor scurrying. At the end of the war, Japan walked out and back to Japan, leaving Hong Kong in a mess, with no government.

The British were also rather occupied at that point, with the entire country essentially bankrupt and no resources to spare. So Hong Kong was left entirely on its own for over a year. In that time, the people of Hong Kong got busy, worked hard, and organised themselves. They set up small vegetable farms, small markets, small private schools, medical clinics and so on.

Eventually, a new British governor arrived with naval backing, and took over. The first thing he did was carry out a survey of the state of the colony. To his surprise, he found it was thriving. Social systems already in place, from farms, to school, to private police. He established a policy of minimal interference, with the British governance largely limited to laws, police, and defense. Hong Kong continued to thrive and grow throughout the British period.

Humans are dependent on their society, community, government etc. Large social groups, like the nation, are better for maximum human welfare, and minimal crime. However, there is no risk of any total social break down, as Seth fears, because smaller social groups (like tribes) form to fill the gap. Independent survivalists, who try to exist away from social groupings, are the least likely to survive, since the wider social groups will see them for what they are - criminal and disruptive elements. Such people will be hunted down and executed. In time, the small social groups will merge and a new system of nations will arise.

Hand guns in the USA.

Some of the less rational people here think that giving more people guns will lead to better self defense and hence less crime. This flies in the face of the simple fact that the USA, with the most guns, also has massively the highest murder rate in the world's richest nations. However, people who worship at the Church of the Gun are not interested in facts, like all fundamentalist religico's.

Lots of 'law abiding' people buy hand guns to stop the nasty bastards attacking. The problem is that the nasty bastards are not blind, and they get their own hand guns to defend themselves against the law abiding ones. Soon all the evil ones have hand guns. The result is the USA having 4 times the murder rate of other western wealthy nations.

Widespread ownership of hand guns leads to mutual destruction, with both the law abiding and the criminals being killed in large numbers, which they are. Seth and his disciples operate on the assumption that threat is enough. It would be if everyone was rational. Are they? Let the murder rate reveal the truth!