Guns Used.....cont

[Svartalf]

No one has a 'right' to self defence period, its legal in restricted circumstances and thats it

Nobody has the right to defend themselves? What the fuck lunacy is this? A zebra can't kick back at a lion? Have you totally lost your shit, dood?

'natural rights' are a mental construct... you can defend yourself or you can't, but there's no right to do so beyond what is built in your social and legal structures.

[MrJonno]

Legal in some circumstances to use 'self defence' right absolutely not, there are no rights only what is legal or not legal

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No one has a 'right' to self defence period, its legal in restricted circumstances and thats it

Nobody has the right to defend themselves? What the fuck lunacy is this? A zebra can't kick back at a lion? Have you totally lost your shit, dood?

'natural rights' are a mental construct... you can defend yourself or you can't, but there's no right to do so beyond what is built in your social and legal structures.

Learned early on that "legal" is what you worry about when it's all over.

[FBM]

Legal in some circumstances to use 'self defence' right absolutely not, there are no rights only what is legal or not legal

What about when the law defines them as legal rights?

[MrJonno]

Without the law you don't have rights

[Seth]

No one has a 'right' to self defence period, its legal in restricted circumstances and thats it

Come attack me and see if I don't invoke my right to self defense. Just because the right maybe regulated doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Try telling someone that they are required by law to submit to a violent attack and see what happens. It's a right because I claim it as a right and will defend it and exercise it as I see fit.

[Seth]

Seems like this guy agrees with me:

Crime
Guess the Ending: Trio of Suspected Armed Robbers Tries ‘Violently’ Breaking Into Home of Dad and His 2-Year-Old Son and…
Feb. 18, 2013 9:22am Jonathon M. Seidl

A father protecting his home and his 2-year-old son opened fire on a trio of suspected armed robbers in Virginia on Sunday killing two of them. The third man escaped and is still at large.

The local sheriff’s department in Prince Edward, VA, says it all unfolded around 4:30am when the three men busted down the door of the man’s home. The homeowner told authorities the men were armed and he exchanged fire with them, killing two of the suspects and sending a third running. A K-9 unit tracked that suspect, but his trail went cold and deputies believe he was picked up by a vehicle.

Local station WWBT-TV says the trio entered the home “violently” and has footage from the scene. A blurred image suggests one of the suspects died on the front lawn:

The father and the child were not harmed.

The story is in stark contrast to another that gained attention last week in Miami, FL. There, two men broke into a family home in an apparent attempted robbery and held a man’s wife at gunpoint. When they tried to enter the room of the couple’s 11-year-old daughter, he jumped up and fought back. That’s when he was shot and died.

So far, no reports have suggested the dad in the latest incident in Virginia will be charged in the deaths of the suspects. The Virginia State Police, which is assisting in the investigation, did not immediately return a request for comment by TheBlaze.

“From the way it looks, he (the homeowner) was defending himself,” Prince Edward County Sheriff Wesley Reed said.

[MrJonno]

The ability to do something does not give you the right to do something, the ability to breathe doesnt give you a right to live

[laklak]

To paraphrase a hero of my misspent youth, Chairman Mao, political rights comes from the barrel of a gun.

The whole quotation is relevant to the discussion:

All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The Communist Party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the Party.

If The Chairman had just listened to the anti-gun experts here and on RatSkep, he'd have realized that an armed populace stands absolutely no chance against a well-equipped army. He could have avoided all that fuss and bother confiscating all those firearms.

[MrJonno]

I always thought the first thing oppressive regimes do is draft everyone into the army and give the people lots of guns

[Seth]

I always thought the first thing oppressive regimes do is draft everyone into the army and give the people lots of guns

Nope.

[Seth]

The ability to do something does not give you the right to do something, the ability to breathe doesnt give you a right to live

No, the ability to defend my life gives me the right to live.

[Blind groper]

Since it is impossible to absolutely and completely get rid of guns, including handguns, in the United States (or anywhere else for that matter, including NZ and the UK)

Wrong.

It is impossible to wave a magic wand and make them all disappear, certainly. It takes time and effort. However, it can be done, if that time and effort is put in. Japan spent many years in a major anti-gun campaign, and is now 99.99% gun free. Gun murders are counted each year as less than the fingers on one hand in that more civilised nation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... un-deaths/

The point is, though, that a start needs to be made. Not some wishy washy "lets ban high capacity magazines" start, but something with real teeth. I suggested hand guns, since hand guns are the cause of 50% of all murders in the USA. All other firearms put together account for only one sixth of murders.

The logical thing to do is totally ban sale and possession of hand guns, except by police. Give the police the right to arrest anyone with a hand gun, with a mandatory one month jail time just for having one on your person. Even criminals will think twice about carrying a hand gun if that is the result.

Set up a moratorium for the delivery of hand guns to the police, where they can be destroyed, and the owners given a set sum of money as compensation. If the moratorium was for, say, two months, with lots of publicity, I can pretty much guarantee that the number of hand guns in the population will drop by half or more in that time, and the following 12 months will see a substantial drop in murders. Thousands of lives saved, and tens of thousands of woundings prevented.

The real problem is political, with idiotic, right wing, red neck nut cases trying to sabotage the effort.

[Seth]

Since it is impossible to absolutely and completely get rid of guns, including handguns, in the United States (or anywhere else for that matter, including NZ and the UK)

Wrong.

It is impossible to wave a magic wand and make them all disappear, certainly. It takes time and effort. However, it can be done, if that time and effort is put in. Japan spent many years in a major anti-gun campaign, and is now 99.99% gun free. Gun murders are counted each year as less than the fingers on one hand in that more civilised nation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... gun-deaths

The Japanese are a servile, obedient, cowed people who are accustomed to obeying the orders of their political superiors. They are, and to a large extent have always been slaves to those WHO HAVE ARMS. Japan was ruled by the Samurai elite for thousands of years, all of whom were armed as a matter of social and religious belief, who could chop in half any peasant they chose just to test the edge on their sword. The peasantry were helpless to resist because they were FORBIDDEN ARMS. They resorted to learning how to use agricultural implements as weapons, but they were unable to overthrow the Samurai lords until the US imported firearms just after the Civil War and put them in the hands of commoners.

But they are still a culturally servile and obedient people, so they cannot be compared to the people of the United States, who are exactly the opposite and who are quite hostile to servility and being ruled.

So, your example is irrelevant and specious.

The point is, though, that a start needs to be made. Not some wishy washy "lets ban high capacity magazines" start, but something with real teeth. I suggested hand guns, since hand guns are the cause of 50% of all murders in the USA. All other firearms put together account for only one sixth of murders.

The logical thing to do is totally ban sale and possession of hand guns, except by police. Give the police the right to arrest anyone with a hand gun, with a mandatory one month jail time just for having one on your person. Even criminals will think twice about carrying a hand gun if that is the result.

Set up a moratorium for the delivery of hand guns to the police, where they can be destroyed, and the owners given a set sum of money as compensation. If the moratorium was for, say, two months, with lots of publicity, I can pretty much guarantee that the number of hand guns in the population will drop by half or more in that time, and the following 12 months will see a substantial drop in murders. Thousands of lives saved, and tens of thousands of woundings prevented.

The real problem is political, with idiotic, right wing, red neck nut cases trying to sabotage the effort.

Can't do it. The 2nd Amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms, specifically military arms and handguns, per the Supreme Court.

If you want to ban guns in the US, then you have to first amend the Constitution and then you have to survive the insurrection that will certainly occur if you try to do so.

[Seth]

Dang! Lookit all those guns being used by law-abiding citizens to thwart crimes:

Posted: 11:13 a.m. Saturday, Feb. 16, 2013

Business owner holds robber a gunpoint

Sponsored Links

By Breaking News Staff

DAYTON —

A suspect was treated at a local hospital then booked into the Montgomery County Jail after being shot while trying to rob a local business.

Just before 6:30a.m. Saturday morning, deputies from the Sheriff’s office were dispatched to Sure Shot Firearms, 6685 Dayton-Liberty Road, in Jefferson Township, on the report of a breaking and entering in progress. Dispatch told the deputies the business owner had one suspect being held at gunpoint but then updated the officers the property owner had shot the suspect.

When deputies arrived on scene, they took the suspect into custody without incident. The suspect was transported to Miami Valley Hospital and treated for a non-life threatening injury. Upon his release from the the hospital, the suspect was booked in the Montgomery County Jail.

The incident is still under investigation.