Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Question

[ronmcd]

* Should Scotland be an independent nation? "Yeah. Why not? Sounds good." *waves flag and cheers
* Should Scotland stay united with the rest of the UK? "Hang on - what will actually happen if we vote, 'no'? I'd better look into it a bit more."

Just going back to your point here, I remember someone talking about this before somewhere, I think it may have been some MP's wanted the question to be about ripping Scotland from the righteous glory of the United Kingdom, although I may be embellishing slightly But someone made the point that surely the party who are proposing a change should word the question from that perspective? So the SNP want Scotland to change to become independent, hence the question is worded that way. If the UK government were proposing a referendum to maintain the union, then perhaps their wording would include the UK in the question (along with "rip from", separation etc).

But, in truth, it's more to do with electoral mandate I think. The SNP won an overwhelming electoral victory in 2011 and simply have a mandate to ask the question, and at the very least propose a specific question. They get to choose, frankly. As the Westminister coalition proposed the AV wording, then changed it after Electoral Commission recommendations.

To be honest, the fuss over this question and the claims (smears) about rigging just demonstrate how politically charged the issue is. If the independence ref had been treated the same as the AV ref by the political parties, today would not even have registered in the news & media.

[ronmcd]

I am impressed, mind, really, at the speed with which you turn up to any Scotch Separatist related thread and for....pretty much nothing else. You've got an excellent alert system going.

We have Whisky Terrorism threads??

[mistermack]

Apart from my prediction that the gnats will lose, and that they will be banging on more and more about devo max as time goes on, I'm now happy to predict that if the unfavourable polls don't change, and it's clear that they will lose, Salmond will make wilder and wilder promises of bribes to the voters, leading up to the vote.

After all, if he loses, he doesn't need to find the money for them, and he can bang on for years about how life would have been better with him as king. If he wins, he's in the shit, but that's still better than losing.

[ronmcd]

Apart from my prediction that the gnats will lose, and that they will be banging on more and more about devo max as time goes on, I'm now happy to predict that if the unfavourable polls don't change, and it's clear that they will lose, Salmond will make wilder and wilder promises of bribes to the voters, leading up to the vote.

After all, if he loses, he doesn't need to find the money for them, and he can bang on for years about how life would have been better with him as king. If he wins, he's in the shit, but that's still better than losing.

It's the other way round. Alex Salmond was attacked by the unionist parties for leaving open the option of a devo max question (explicitly - IF someone else proposed it, and they didnt). The UK government insisted in the negotiations that there was only going to be 1 question, an in/out referendum, and they took credit for it.

But guess what?

Now that devo max is off the referendum paper, the other parties are all proposing it or moving towards it. The Scottish Conservative leader who a year ago said the current devolution settlement was a "line in the sand", this week said more devolution was necessary and shat on her own ex leader in a speech, even though she was sitting there in the audience. Alistair Darling of all people praised a think-tank devo-max proposal made recently. The libdems ... well who cares what they think.

I suspect the YES campaign just need to keep quiet for now, the NO camp seems to be filled with YES infiltrators ...

[mistermack]

With the Scottish voters about two to one against, I think keeping quiet isn't an option for Alex.

He's tried keeping his head down for a while, and that hasn't helped either.

Look out for the bribes, coming your way soon.

[ronmcd]

Interesting that Labour etc claimed the Scottish govt proposed question wasn't fair. What was the 1997 Labour govt question for the creation of the Scottish Parliament?


1997 referendum asked voters:
I agree that there should be a Scottish Parliament.
I do not agree that there should be a Scottish Parliament.

Scottish govt question:
Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country? YES/NO

Electoral commission question:
Should Scotland be an independent country? YES/NO


So ... agree wasn't a problem for Labour, when it was their referendum. Odd. I wonder what Labour would have said if the new question had been proposed by the SNP? I've no doubt they would have found some reason to object.

[Strontium Dog]

I do wonder what happens afterwards, when the Scottish vote NO by an overwhelming margin. Do the SNP keep trying to ask the same question until they get the answer they want? Or do they start making the case for the logical and sensible solution of a federal United Kingdom?

[ronmcd]

I do wonder what happens afterwards, when the Scottish vote NO by an overwhelming margin. Do the SNP keep trying to ask the same question until they get the answer they want? Or do they start making the case for the logical and sensible solution of a federal United Kingdom?

No idea what SNP would do. Likely continue being the Scottish government, as people seem to like having a government which argues with rather than just implements Westminister policies. It has been argued this week that the SNP have actually lowered the demand for independence in the last 6 years they have been in power, ironically. It actually makes some sense. Re your question, Salmond talked before about putting the question to bed for a generation, or words to that effect. There wouldnt be a new referendum anytime soon if the vote was no. It would need something new to happen in the future.

But yes or no, I suspect the final vote will be close.

[ronmcd]

Had to laugh at this from the Torygraph:

Unbelievable that the Electoral Commission has agreed to the question "Should Scotland be an independent country?" for the referendum on Scottish independence. This is a classic loaded question, heavily weighting the exercise in favour of a "yes" vote. If the wording had been "Should Scotland be an independent country or remain part of the United Kingdom?" that would have fairly represented the alternative (though as commenters have pointed out below, it means the answer can't be a simple Yes or No). The Electoral Commission is pretending that it has chosen a "neutral" option by rejecting Alex Salmond's suggestion that the question should begin "Do you agree that Scotland…" Oh, please. That makes no difference. Salmond must be delighted with this "neutrality".

This isn't just bad politics; it's polling methodology so bad that it verges on the dishonest. If the British Government allows this question to go forward, it deserves to lose.

not only did the Tories repeatedly demand SNP accept the Electoral Commission recommendations without question, now Cameron has refused to accept some of their recommendations, and the Torygraph thinks Cameron should intervene in the question!! Even though they've already devolved control of the whole referendum!

oh deary me, it just gets funnier

[ronmcd]

SNP Forced To Surrender In War of Words

Separatist commander, Nicola Sturgeon, screamed in horror when the Electoral Commission produced their devastating criticism of her plans to trick Scotlandshire into voting to destroy the wonders of Britishdom.

Forced by a Better Together campaign, to accept the instructions of the Electoral Commission regardless of what that was, Sturgeon made a tactical retreat, quoting what she had actually said.

She tediously said yet again, "I've also made clear, and will do so again, there would have to be a very good reason to depart from Electoral Commission recommendations, and any government so doing would have to explain its position to this Parliament"

In a grovelling admission that dictator Salmond had got everything wrong, Sturgeon said "I can confirm that the Scottish Government will accept all the Electoral Commission's recommendations."

Previously, Patricia Ferguson (Unionist MSP, Maryhill & Springburn) had attacked the Government, claiming that all the Unionist parties had said that they would accept EC recommendations because "we think this place is a dictatorship, and it's clearly much better to have decisions made by an unelected body, rather than by politicians who had been voted for by actual people, when those people hadn't voted Unionist.

"If the Electoral Commission recommend that the decision be taken while all MSPs were stark naked, then we would accept that and immediately strip to the buff."

[ronmcd]

I should really thank you Clinton Huxley, this latest nat-bashing thread has been *most* amusing

[Clinton Huxley]

I should really thank you Clinton Huxley, this latest nat-bashing thread has been *most* amusing

Gnats, midges, they can't help but bite.

[Seabass]

The leaders of the SNP are named Salmond and Sturgeon? That's kinda funny.

[ronmcd]

I should really thank you Clinton Huxley, this latest nat-bashing thread has been *most* amusing

Gnats, midges, they can't help but bite.

And trolls ... ?