Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Question
- Clinton Huxley
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Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Question
I see that the Electoral Commission have rejected Scotch Separatist Tribal Elder Salmond's biased referendum question. Grumpy Cat says "Good"
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
http://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
- klr
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Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



- Rum
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Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
A slippery fish, that Salmond. 

Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
Isn't there still a problem here in that the question is absolute?
For example some polls have shown that many more Scotchers will vote for independence if they think that they will be financially better off.
In the current climate or under the current agreements they may perceive that they will be less well off.
Hence they could all agree that independence is preferable, but some want it now and some later (at some unspecified date).
This question suggests that those who want it later will be included as asking for it now.
For example some polls have shown that many more Scotchers will vote for independence if they think that they will be financially better off.
In the current climate or under the current agreements they may perceive that they will be less well off.
Hence they could all agree that independence is preferable, but some want it now and some later (at some unspecified date).
This question suggests that those who want it later will be included as asking for it now.
- Clinton Huxley
- 19th century monkeybitch.
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Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
Well, I guess you have to have an absolute question and people just have to make their minds up now, as we are going through with this time-wasting nonsense.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
http://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
- Clinton Huxley
- 19th century monkeybitch.
- Posts: 23746
- Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
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Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
Apparently he returns to the Scotch parliament every year to spawn.Rum wrote:A slippery fish, that Salmond.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
http://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
- Thinking Aloud
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Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
The HUB of Scottish POWAR!
Is just around the corner from my house.
Is just around the corner from my house.
http://thinking-aloud.co.uk/ Musical Me
- mistermack
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Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
The Scottish Gnats are trying to make a virtue out of accepting the recommendation.
Perhaps the commission should have suggested :
"Should Scotland stay united with the rest of the UK"
See if they would have liked that.
As it is, they have also got away with the fiction of "independent" on the grounds that the electorate knew what it meant.
Oh well, if they say so.
Perhaps the commission should have suggested :
"Should Scotland stay united with the rest of the UK"
See if they would have liked that.
As it is, they have also got away with the fiction of "independent" on the grounds that the electorate knew what it meant.
Oh well, if they say so.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
- Clinton Huxley
- 19th century monkeybitch.
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Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
"Gnats" - I like it. I shall use it.mistermack wrote:The Scottish Gnats are trying to make a virtue out of accepting the recommendation.
Perhaps the commission should have suggested :
"Should Scotland stay united with the rest of the UK"
See if they would have liked that.
As it is, they have also got away with the fiction of "independent" on the grounds that the electorate knew what it meant.
Oh well, if they say so.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
http://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
- Thinking Aloud
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Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
The psychology of questions.mistermack wrote:Perhaps the commission should have suggested :
"Should Scotland stay united with the rest of the UK"
Both the previously proposed question and the commission's recommendation require an answer of "Yes" for the change to proceed. "Should Scotland become independent?"
MM's suggestion would require an answer of "No" for the change to proceed.
I wonder: is the positive "Yes" answer too attractive to voters - too easy to just go with it without thinking? Does consciously having to select a "No" answer in order to bring about change require the voter to think a little harder?
Interesting.
http://thinking-aloud.co.uk/ Musical Me
Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
It's been a good day!
Let's review ....
Scottish govt's proposed question:
Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country? YES/NO
Labour/Libdem/Tory "expert panel" suggestion from last year:
Scotland should become an independent state”, and asked to put an “X” against “I agree” or “I disagree”
Electoral Commission proposed question:
Should Scotland be an independent country? YES/NO
And, of course, the Scottish govt accepted the minor change, simply removing the do you agree
Now, the more interesting part is this: the unionist parties have been DEMANDING (in capitals!) that the Scottish govt accept everything the Electoral Commission said, even before they had reported their recommendations (note: recommendations). So what else did the EC recommend:
Scottish Government proposals for regulated referendum spending limits:
YES side: £1,250,000
NO side: £1,500,000
(advantage of £250,000 to NO campaign)
Electoral Commission recommendations for regulated referendum spending limits:
YES side: £2,994,000
NO side: £2,931,000
(advantage of £63,000 to YES campaign)
Oh no! It’s another defeat for the SNP!
And finally, the third recommendation?
Oh yes, this is a terrible day with a 2 recommendations which favour the YES campaign and one which makes no difference to the wording or result. Definitely the worst day for the YES campaign since they were forced to leave off the devo-max option from the referendum by the UK government. The option that will make large numbers of people move from "dont know" to "yes". That option.
If anyone, in all seriousness, thinks that the referendum is already won by the NO side, I would genuinely recommend you read the recent Observer article by old-school Glasgow Labour unionist Kevin McKenna. And realise this is what many labour supporters think. Interesting times ahead, now that the false war about the question is over. McKenna lambasted SNP and Salmond for years, as many Labour people do. And like many Labour people it has now dawned on him that it isnt about Salmond, and it isnt about Labour, its about making decisions in Scotland rather than letting the blue tories/red tories fuck us over and over and over.

Scottish govt's proposed question:
Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country? YES/NO
Labour/Libdem/Tory "expert panel" suggestion from last year:
Scotland should become an independent state”, and asked to put an “X” against “I agree” or “I disagree”
Electoral Commission proposed question:
Should Scotland be an independent country? YES/NO
And, of course, the Scottish govt accepted the minor change, simply removing the do you agree

Now, the more interesting part is this: the unionist parties have been DEMANDING (in capitals!) that the Scottish govt accept everything the Electoral Commission said, even before they had reported their recommendations (note: recommendations). So what else did the EC recommend:
Scottish Government proposals for regulated referendum spending limits:
YES side: £1,250,000
NO side: £1,500,000
(advantage of £250,000 to NO campaign)
Electoral Commission recommendations for regulated referendum spending limits:
YES side: £2,994,000
NO side: £2,931,000
(advantage of £63,000 to YES campaign)
Oh no! It’s another defeat for the SNP!

And finally, the third recommendation?
But McCormick also put pressure on the British government by urging both it and its Holyrood counterpart to set out before the referendum how independence would be negotiated if Scotland voted to leave the UK. The UK government has rejected Sturgeon's demands for talks on the mechanics of that post-referendum process.
Oh yes, this is a terrible day with a 2 recommendations which favour the YES campaign and one which makes no difference to the wording or result. Definitely the worst day for the YES campaign since they were forced to leave off the devo-max option from the referendum by the UK government. The option that will make large numbers of people move from "dont know" to "yes". That option.
If anyone, in all seriousness, thinks that the referendum is already won by the NO side, I would genuinely recommend you read the recent Observer article by old-school Glasgow Labour unionist Kevin McKenna. And realise this is what many labour supporters think. Interesting times ahead, now that the false war about the question is over. McKenna lambasted SNP and Salmond for years, as many Labour people do. And like many Labour people it has now dawned on him that it isnt about Salmond, and it isnt about Labour, its about making decisions in Scotland rather than letting the blue tories/red tories fuck us over and over and over.
Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
More importantly, will it make a blind bit of difference? When someone phones you up and asks you a question, a leading question will make a difference due to the psychology of the question as you suggest, and because they are under pressure. That is entirely different from the situation where Scots will go to the polling booth having discussed this very specific referendum question and the issues for 3 years, ever since SNP won the election in 2011, and most people having been exposed to the arguments for decades. It may be a new discussion for the BBC SKY and the UK in general, but it isnt for people in Scotland.Thinking Aloud wrote:The psychology of questions.mistermack wrote:Perhaps the commission should have suggested :
"Should Scotland stay united with the rest of the UK"
Both the previously proposed question and the commission's recommendation require an answer of "Yes" for the change to proceed. "Should Scotland become independent?"
MM's suggestion would require an answer of "No" for the change to proceed.
I wonder: is the positive "Yes" answer too attractive to voters - too easy to just go with it without thinking? Does consciously having to select a "No" answer in order to bring about change require the voter to think a little harder?
Interesting.
I dont think the question, or at least the SNP suggestion or the Electoral Commission recommendation, will make any difference to the result.
- mistermack
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Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
Sounds like the gnats are rehearsing their losing speech.
"It's all Cameron's fault. He wouldn't allow us to include devo-max."
You're going to hear this a lot more, as the day get's nearer.
Funny from a party that's campaigning for INDEPENDENCE.
Not so long now. And the polls are still shit for the yes campaign.
"It's all Cameron's fault. He wouldn't allow us to include devo-max."
You're going to hear this a lot more, as the day get's nearer.
Funny from a party that's campaigning for INDEPENDENCE.
Not so long now. And the polls are still shit for the yes campaign.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
Just for my own (considerable) amusement:
The Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said:
“I would like to thank the Electoral Commission for the work they have done on testing our proposed referendum question and giving advice on campaign spending limits. I am pleased to confirm we will accept their recommendations in full.
“I am particularly delighted with the conclusion the Electoral Commission has reached on the question. While its view is that our proposed question was clear, simple and easy to understand, I am nevertheless happy to accept their recommended change.
“Their advice is based on rigorous testing and we will submit the Electoral Commission’s recommended question – ‘Should Scotland be an independent country?’ – to the Scottish Parliament as part of the Referendum Bill.
“I am also pleased with the spending limits proposed by the Electoral Commission - they deliver a level playing field and will allow a fair and balanced debate on both sides. I am also pleased that the Commission has modified the position set out in their response to our consultation in March, as this would have resulted in an imbalance between the two sides of the campaign.
“We have always said that Scotland’s referendum will be run to the highest international standards of fairness and transparency, and the Electoral Commission plays a vital role in that.
“The Scottish Parliament will take the final decision on the wording of the question and campaign spending limits as part of its consideration of the Referendum Bill which reinforces that this is truly a referendum made in Scotland.
“I also welcome the Electoral Commission calls for both the Scottish and UK Governments to clarify what process will follow the referendum if most voters vote ‘Yes’ or most voters vote ‘No’ vote. The Electoral Commission rightly point out this is in line with the Edinburgh Agreement.
“I have been calling for the UK Government to enter discussions to allow the voters to be better informed, but so far they have refused. This would not be pre-negotiation on the terms of independence but vital information for voters that will allow them to make an informed choice in autumn 2014. Given the Scottish Government is accepting all recommendations from the Electoral Commission I would hope that the UK Government is prepared to do the same.”

The Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said:
“I would like to thank the Electoral Commission for the work they have done on testing our proposed referendum question and giving advice on campaign spending limits. I am pleased to confirm we will accept their recommendations in full.
“I am particularly delighted with the conclusion the Electoral Commission has reached on the question. While its view is that our proposed question was clear, simple and easy to understand, I am nevertheless happy to accept their recommended change.
“Their advice is based on rigorous testing and we will submit the Electoral Commission’s recommended question – ‘Should Scotland be an independent country?’ – to the Scottish Parliament as part of the Referendum Bill.
“I am also pleased with the spending limits proposed by the Electoral Commission - they deliver a level playing field and will allow a fair and balanced debate on both sides. I am also pleased that the Commission has modified the position set out in their response to our consultation in March, as this would have resulted in an imbalance between the two sides of the campaign.
“We have always said that Scotland’s referendum will be run to the highest international standards of fairness and transparency, and the Electoral Commission plays a vital role in that.
“The Scottish Parliament will take the final decision on the wording of the question and campaign spending limits as part of its consideration of the Referendum Bill which reinforces that this is truly a referendum made in Scotland.
“I also welcome the Electoral Commission calls for both the Scottish and UK Governments to clarify what process will follow the referendum if most voters vote ‘Yes’ or most voters vote ‘No’ vote. The Electoral Commission rightly point out this is in line with the Edinburgh Agreement.
“I have been calling for the UK Government to enter discussions to allow the voters to be better informed, but so far they have refused. This would not be pre-negotiation on the terms of independence but vital information for voters that will allow them to make an informed choice in autumn 2014. Given the Scottish Government is accepting all recommendations from the Electoral Commission I would hope that the UK Government is prepared to do the same.”

- Clinton Huxley
- 19th century monkeybitch.
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Re: Electoral Commission Reject Biased SNP Referendum Questi
Spin. Took you a while to get here, Ron, but then you have to do PR on a lot of sites.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
http://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
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