Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

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Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Gerald McGrew » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:22 pm

Republicans in Virginia, other states seeking electoral college changes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... tid=pm_pop
Republicans in Virginia and a handful of other battleground states are pushing for far-reaching changes to the electoral college in an attempt to counter recent success by Democrats.

In the vast majority of states, the presidential candidate who wins receives all of that state’s electoral votes. The proposed changes would instead apportion electoral votes by congressional district, a setup far more favorable to Republicans. Under such a system in Virginia, for instance, President Obama would have claimed four of the state’s 13 electoral votes in the 2012 election, rather than all of them.
The result? You could potentially have a candidate win the popular vote by 4-5%, but lose the election.

Republicans....can't win on ideas, so they just try and cheat their way to power. :lay:
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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by klr » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:27 pm

Don't a couple of other states do something similar already?
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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Gerald McGrew » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:10 pm

Yes, Maine and Nebraska, both fairly inconsequential in the EC picture. However, if this becomes widespread (especially in the swing states), we could have POTUS elections where a candidate wins the popular vote by as much as 5%, yet loses the election.
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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Tyrannical » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:18 pm

klr wrote:Don't a couple of other states do something similar already?
At least two states do, but I don't think they have ever split their vote.

It's not a bad idea, and is more representative to how Congressional elections work. People vote for a representative from their district, and everyone votes for the two college seats each State has.
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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Calilasseia » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:41 pm

So the Rethugs are at it again. Quelle surprise

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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:49 pm

My congressional district is gerrymandered to the extent that you have to have a street-level map to know if you're in that district.
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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Tero » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:11 pm

But hey, we got rid of Todd Akin. Nobody had told him what an idiot he was. It's not his fault he lost, for Senate.

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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Ian » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:37 pm

A couple of Virginia Republican state senators are revolting from the idea:
http://blogs.roanoke.com/politics/2013/ ... -district/

So the bill probably won't even get to the floor, and it'll lose if it does.

As for the other states, I'd almost like to see them try it. The public won't overlook something as profound as that, which means there will be a major backlash against those who put it into law.

Republicans: champions of democracy... as long as they win.
klr wrote:Don't a couple of other states do something similar already?
Main and Nebraska, but winner of the overall vote gets extra electors.

Theoretically this wouldn't quite as terrible if every state in the union did it; then the only problem would be the matter of gerrymandering which exists already. But every state in the union isn't going to happen. So far this is only happening in blueish battleground states controlled by GOP state legislatures. What a coincidence.

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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Seth » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:42 pm

Gerald McGrew wrote:Republicans in Virginia, other states seeking electoral college changes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... tid=pm_pop
Republicans in Virginia and a handful of other battleground states are pushing for far-reaching changes to the electoral college in an attempt to counter recent success by Democrats.

In the vast majority of states, the presidential candidate who wins receives all of that state’s electoral votes. The proposed changes would instead apportion electoral votes by congressional district, a setup far more favorable to Republicans. Under such a system in Virginia, for instance, President Obama would have claimed four of the state’s 13 electoral votes in the 2012 election, rather than all of them.
The result? You could potentially have a candidate win the popular vote by 4-5%, but lose the election.

Republicans....can't win on ideas, so they just try and cheat their way to power. :lay:
Happens all the time. That's the way the electoral college is set up to work. It's another check and balance. As for being "far more favorable to Republicans" that's hardly true.

But again, it's not like the Democrats don't do the exact same thing when it's their ox being gored.
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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Seth » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:44 pm

Ian wrote:A couple of Virginia Republican state senators are revolting from the idea:
http://blogs.roanoke.com/politics/2013/ ... -district/

So the bill probably won't even get to the floor, and it'll lose if it does.

As for the other states, I'd almost like to see them try it. The public won't overlook something as profound as that, which means there will be a major backlash against those who put it into law.

Republicans: champions of democracy... as long as they win.
Well, no, not really. This isn't a democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic that uses some democratic methods, and of course Republicans want to win, they are after all fighting for the very soul of the American Republic and system of government against Marxists, Socialists and Progressives, all of whom would eagerly and gladly destroy everything that has kept us free and made America the best nation on earth for more than 200 years.
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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Ian » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:46 pm

Seth wrote: But again, it's not like the Democrats don't do the exact same thing when it's their ox being gored.
Such as? Tell us about something comparable to negating the electoral college.
Seth wrote:
Ian wrote: Republicans: champions of democracy... as long as they win.
Well, no, not really. This isn't a democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic that uses some democratic methods, and of course Republicans want to win, they are after all fighting for the very soul of the American Republic and system of government against Marxists, Socialists and Progressives, all of whom would eagerly and gladly destroy everything that has kept us free and made America the best nation on earth for more than 200 years.
Ah, the "but... Republicans are the freedom-loving party!" logic. With the obligatory dash of rampant Marxism thrown in, of course. Brilliant, Holmes. :tup:

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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by klr » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:25 am

How bad is the gerrymandering at the congressional district level? That seems to be the sticking point here.

And what would there be to stop democrats from trying to do something similar in states that traditionally vote Republican?
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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Tero » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:33 am

It would be more difficult for Dems to grab Repub territory, need big land area.

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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Ian » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:16 am

klr wrote:How bad is the gerrymandering at the congressional district level? That seems to be the sticking point here.

And what would there be to stop democrats from trying to do something similar in states that traditionally vote Republican?
Gerrymandering is probably the biggest root problem causing the gridlock in Congress today. Most seats are "safe", meaning they are in districts virtually certain to elect one party or the other, regardless of which idiot is running on that party's ticket. And for candidates to remain competitive, they (especially Republicans! Democrats don't have a Tea Party equivalent, and they're not worried about being called a DINO. but Republicans being called a RINO who doesn't pass a conservative purity test are in trouble with the party Base) are more worried about primary election challenges from within their own party than general election challenges against the opposition party. So to protect themselves from primary challengers, members of Congress from both parties (but again, especially Republicans) tend to be people who are more liberal or conservative, depending on the district, than their rank-and-file constituents.

One difficulty in correcting the problem is the geographic makeup of liberals & conservatives. The basic rule-of-thumb is that liberals tend to live in denser urban areas and conservatives are more rural and spread out, hence the difficulty in creating more equitable districts.

To answer your second question, there is really nothing stopping Democrats from doing anything similar. When Democrats control state legislatures & governor's mansions, they tend to gerrymander as well - though I don't ever recall other cases of such naked attempts to rig the electoral college in order to influence Presidential elections (btw Republicans... does it strike you as coincidental that this new tactic is suddenly springing up in various battleground states at the same time? Occam's Razor should lead us to conclude that the national party leadership is behind it rather than various state senators all coming up with it simultaneously - hence we can blame the GOP itself as undemocratic rather than singling out a few mid-level politicians). At the moment the Republicans have some key upper hands at these levels. But yes, gerrymandering itself is a flaw that both parties will exploit where they can because they have the incentive to do so as well as disincentive not to do so.

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Re: Republicans' Plans to Steal Elections

Post by Seth » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:30 am

Ian wrote:
Seth wrote: But again, it's not like the Democrats don't do the exact same thing when it's their ox being gored.
Such as? Tell us about something comparable to negating the electoral college.
Democrats were bitching about the electoral college when Bush beat Gore. SOS-DD
Seth wrote:
Ian wrote: Republicans: champions of democracy... as long as they win.
Well, no, not really. This isn't a democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic that uses some democratic methods, and of course Republicans want to win, they are after all fighting for the very soul of the American Republic and system of government against Marxists, Socialists and Progressives, all of whom would eagerly and gladly destroy everything that has kept us free and made America the best nation on earth for more than 200 years.
Ah, the "but... Republicans are the freedom-loving party!" logic. With the obligatory dash of rampant Marxism thrown in, of course. Brilliant, Holmes. :tup:
There is innate evil in the world and it's name is Marxism, and it's evil spawn are Socialism, Collectivism and Progressivism.
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