Catholic child abuse in Australia

[Pappa]

I just can't believe that the argument is essentially this: "A perfectly normal person deprived of normal sexual congress will naturally prey on the most vulnerable (children) and commit the most morally reprehensible crimes to satisfy his sexual urges."

Nobody said "naturally", as if it's inevitable. I just said that it's possible that it might be occurring in some circumstances, but that there's scant evidence either way.

[JimC]

Maybe I misread the article, but are they saying the cause of paedophile priests is institutionalized celibacy? Because that's complete bullshit and sickening to boot.

I don't think so - the guy is an ex-priest, and critical of many aspects of the church. I think he was implying that celibacy was one of the things which caused psychological problems for many priests, and so might be a contributing factor to them going of the rails.

Most other commentators emphasise the appalling way in which the church hierarchy were determined to keep everything in-house, and shuffle offending priests around the country (or even overseas). From memory, so has this guy at other times - this article has a narrow focus on his views about celibacy.

[JimC]

Do you have any priests actually teaching at your school Jim?

We have an elderly priest who is the rector, who I don't much like. Very doctrinaire, but not an abuser, I'm pretty sure. Another brother who acts as a teachers aide, about my age, quite a good artist and a nice guy. However, the Salesian order (which our school was founded by) has had several cases of abusive priests, particularly in boarding schools. That included one who was a principal of our school; the abuse had occurred when he was teaching at another boarding school.

Informed commentators are saying the proportion of pedophile priests in the past was 1 in 20, which is very high...

[klr]

Do you have any priests actually teaching at your school Jim?

We have an elderly priest who is the rector, who I don't much like. Very doctrinaire, but not an abuser, I'm pretty sure. Another brother who acts as a teachers aide, about my age, quite a good artist and a nice guy. However, the Salesian order (which our school was founded by) has had several cases of abusive priests, particularly in boarding schools. That included one who was a principal of our school; the abuse had occurred when he was teaching at another boarding school.

Informed commentators are saying the proportion of pedophile priests in the past was 1 in 20, which is very high...

So high in fact that it would have had to be common knowledge amongst priests generally, never mind the bishops. And yet it went on for many years - decades - just like here in Ireland.

[JimC]

Do you have any priests actually teaching at your school Jim?

We have an elderly priest who is the rector, who I don't much like. Very doctrinaire, but not an abuser, I'm pretty sure. Another brother who acts as a teachers aide, about my age, quite a good artist and a nice guy. However, the Salesian order (which our school was founded by) has had several cases of abusive priests, particularly in boarding schools. That included one who was a principal of our school; the abuse had occurred when he was teaching at another boarding school.

Informed commentators are saying the proportion of pedophile priests in the past was 1 in 20, which is very high...

So high in fact that it would have had to be common knowledge amongst priests generally, never mind the bishops. And yet it went on for many years - decades - just like here in Ireland.

Exactly. And that is the aspects which should lead to the sacking of all bishops who were running the church at that time, especially that arsehole Cardinal George Pell...

[klr]

Do you have any priests actually teaching at your school Jim?

We have an elderly priest who is the rector, who I don't much like. Very doctrinaire, but not an abuser, I'm pretty sure. Another brother who acts as a teachers aide, about my age, quite a good artist and a nice guy. However, the Salesian order (which our school was founded by) has had several cases of abusive priests, particularly in boarding schools. That included one who was a principal of our school; the abuse had occurred when he was teaching at another boarding school.

Informed commentators are saying the proportion of pedophile priests in the past was 1 in 20, which is very high...

So high in fact that it would have had to be common knowledge amongst priests generally, never mind the bishops. And yet it went on for many years - decades - just like here in Ireland.

Exactly. And that is the aspects which should lead to the sacking of all bishops who were running the church at that time, especially that arsehole Cardinal George Pell...

I misread that as Cardinal Hell, which unfortunately he'll never get to see.

[klr]

Re the elderly doctrinaire priest: I agree that he doesn't fit the abuser profile, but he probably presents the mindset that helped keep it hidden/ignored for so long.

[JimC]

Re the elderly doctrinaire priest: I agree that he doesn't fit the abuser profile, but he probably presents the mindset that helped keep it hidden/ignored for so long.

Very probably...

[Tyrannical]

Maybe I misread the article, but are they saying the cause of paedophile priests is institutionalized celibacy? Because that's complete bullshit and sickening to boot.

Idk... it's not easy to say if it's an impossibility. While it's more likely that paedophiles have been attracted to the priesthood because of easy access to children, it's not really well understood what prolonged, involuntary celibacy can do to a person. I'm not saying it's likely to be a common reason, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility without evidence either way.

I can't see the connection between 'no sex' and 'hey, why don't I fuck this little boy (or girl)'. The propensity would have to already exist, IMO, perhaps latently, but nevertheless still there. If they can see clear to rationalize paedophilia as outside the bounds of celibacy, why can they not rub one out like the majority of people who get no action? There's no excuse there that I can see. They're paedophiles and giving them free reign to fuck women isn't going to change their proclivities.

Yup, the problem is the priesthood attracts the gays/paedophiles. If they weren't priests, they'd still be gay and they'd still try and go after teenage boys. They would just have less of an opportunity to do so.

[Rum]

I think it is pretty offensive to use the term 'gays/paedophiles' in that way personally. I suppose we should be used to your narrow minded and bigoted take on life by now though. Suppose you took a different view and used the term 'heteros/paedophiles'?

There is no evidence that I am aware of that the priesthood attracts gay people. One could hypothesise that in days gone by when homosexuality was taboo and completely socially unacceptable one path for some men might be suppressing their 'urges' via the celibacy route. That however is just lazy hypothesising basing ones views on ones prejudices. And in any case why should sexually repressed gay priests be any more or less likely to abuse than a sexually repressed heterosexual priest?

The facts are that studies show there appears to be no correlation of this type. "No evidence was found to suggest that male victims were purposefully targeted more than female victims; rather, the abuse appeared to be more a function of opportunity" (http://sax.sagepub.com/content/early/20 ... 0.abstract).

Opportunity and the abuse of power, added to the poisonous repression of one of the great things about being human by an evil religion which tells us we are doomed if we enjoy sex.

[pErvinalia]

Maybe I misread the article, but are they saying the cause of paedophile priests is institutionalized celibacy? Because that's complete bullshit and sickening to boot.

Idk... it's not easy to say if it's an impossibility. While it's more likely that paedophiles have been attracted to the priesthood because of easy access to children, it's not really well understood what prolonged, involuntary celibacy can do to a person. I'm not saying it's likely to be a common reason, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility without evidence either way.

I can't see the connection between 'no sex' and 'hey, why don't I fuck this little boy (or girl)'. The propensity would have to already exist, IMO, perhaps latently, but nevertheless still there. If they can see clear to rationalize paedophilia as outside the bounds of celibacy, why can they not rub one out like the majority of people who get no action? There's no excuse there that I can see. They're paedophiles and giving them free reign to fuck women isn't going to change their proclivities.

Yup, the problem is the priesthood attracts the gays/paedophiles. If they weren't priests, they'd still be gay and they'd still try and go after teenage boys.

You seem to be a fucking ignoramus. How is it you equate gay <----> pedophile?

[Rum]

Maybe I misread the article, but are they saying the cause of paedophile priests is institutionalized celibacy? Because that's complete bullshit and sickening to boot.

Idk... it's not easy to say if it's an impossibility. While it's more likely that paedophiles have been attracted to the priesthood because of easy access to children, it's not really well understood what prolonged, involuntary celibacy can do to a person. I'm not saying it's likely to be a common reason, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility without evidence either way.

I can't see the connection between 'no sex' and 'hey, why don't I fuck this little boy (or girl)'. The propensity would have to already exist, IMO, perhaps latently, but nevertheless still there. If they can see clear to rationalize paedophilia as outside the bounds of celibacy, why can they not rub one out like the majority of people who get no action? There's no excuse there that I can see. They're paedophiles and giving them free reign to fuck women isn't going to change their proclivities.

Yup, the problem is the priesthood attracts the gays/paedophiles. If they weren't priests, they'd still be gay and they'd still try and go after teenage boys.

You seem to be a fucking ignoramus. How is it you equate gay <----> pedophile?

Rather than (just) insulting him there is evidence as I pointed out here: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 0#p1368471

[pErvinalia]

Of course there's no evidence. There's no conceivable reason why homos would be paedophiles any more than heteros. Tyrannical is a bigoted arsewipe. No need to have rational debates with types like that. No evidence anyone presents will change his opinion. Better to just call him out for what he is.

[Rum]

Of course there's no evidence. There's no conceivable reason why homos would be paedophiles any more than heteros. Tyrannical is a bigoted arsewipe. No need to have rational debates with types like that. No evidence anyone presents will change his opinion. Better to just call him out for what he is.

Do you actually read what other people post?

You may wish to actually click on the link. It provides evidence that homosexuality does not appear to be a factor in these cases.

[pErvinalia]

I don't know what you are talking about. I am countering Tyrannical's bigoted beliefs that gay people can be equated with paedophiles.