Connecticut (et al)

[pErvinalia]

Maybe in some science fiction writing? Not as ludicrous as it sounds perhaps. Science has harvested ideas from science fiction for years. The fiction writer is the creativity that some scientists (and economists) probably lack.

[JimC]

Maybe in some science fiction writing? Not as ludicrous as it sounds perhaps. Science has harvested ideas from science fiction for years. The fiction writer is the creativity that some scientists (and economists) probably lack.

Quite possibly...

[MrJonno]

We have already reached the point where there isnt enough economic valuable work for the population, at the moment we are only a have a few % who are excess to requirement but thats only going to increase in the future.

[JimC]

We have already reached the point where there isnt enough economic valuable work for the population, at the moment we are only a have a few % who are excess to requirement but thats only going to increase in the future.

"excess to requirement" is a rather worrying term, in context...

[pErvinalia]

specially when jonno says it.

[MrJonno]

We have already reached the point where there isnt enough economic valuable work for the population, at the moment we are only a have a few % who are excess to requirement but thats only going to increase in the future.

"excess to requirement" is a rather worrying term, in context...

Excess to the requirements of capitalism, thats worrying for capitalism and current society but whether that should worry the people involved depends on what happens next

[macdoc]

I'm a capitalist but one who promotes and practices a non-predatory version and that means sustainable as well.

The issue is not isms but control of predation where ever it may arise and that includes on the biome and general populace as say coal companies do without suffering any economic or legal consequences of that predation.

Any individual or group can be predatory. Teachers are in Ontario at the moment - demanding wage increases that simply cannot be borne in the current economy yet still making 30-50% more than other jurisdiction and they are holding education hostage. That's predation.

Motorcycle gangs are predatory groups that are clearly sanctioned.
Yakuza and organized crime.
But there are less obvious cases - sloppy and poorly regulated fracking for instance protected by the likes of the Charney loop hole. Corruption at any level including jerrymandering to subvert democratic process.

Isms are a bunch of cold war crock.....predation is what needs to be dealt with so there is both a safe society and one of equal opportunity instead of one serving special interest groups.

•••

Mr. Jonno you are working on an antiquated principle that was frontier based and growth based instead of steady state and "better" based.
Current economic metrics are very wrongheaded.
First world societies do not need to grow to become wealthier and "better"> But the measurement sticks are all around growth.

Tell Apple there is not enough "economic activity". They have created entire new industries. An app developer can do very well thanks to new venues as can content creators that go around and disintermediate traditional forms of commerce for direct connection with fans and followers.

Authors are self publishing and creating income via Amazon without any publishing house involved.

The list of new sustainable areas of economic activity is endless but as long as housing starts and coal mining and shuffling phantom funds in Wallstreet dominate the "economic activity" metrics then it all looks so gloomy.
You can't go back home....the 50s are over.

[pErvinalia]

edit: scrap that. I see you edited your post above.

edit again: actually, you don't seem to have understood that it's likely that those vocations you mention above will all be replaced by artificial systems one day. What happens then?

[Hermit]

...answers to future problems are unlikely to be found either in Das Capital...

"Das Kapital" does point out the fatal flaw of the logic in capitalism, though. Don't ask me to find the particular section it has been treated in, please. I have not looked at those volumes for 35 years and, as you may be able to appreciate, the location where this issue is addressed is exceedingly difficult to find by keyword searches on the text available at various internet sites.

What I am fairly sure of is that answers to future problems are indeed unlikely to be found in Marx's writings, at least going by history. So far all successful attempts to overthrow the ruling classes and establish a dictatorship of the proletariat have resulted in a dictatorship alright, but the proletariat had no part in that as soon as the violent overthrow was accomplished.

• We'll be fighting in the streets
  With our children at our feet
  And the morals that they worship will be gone
  And the men who spurred us on
  Sit in judgement of all wrong
  They decide and the shotgun sings the song
  
  ...
  
  Change it had to come
  We knew it all along
  We were liberated from the fall that's all
  But the world looks just the same
  And history ain't changed
  'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war
  
  ...
  
  There's nothing in the street
  Looks any different to me
  And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
  
  ...
  
  Meet the new boss
  Same as the old boss

Can't remember who wrote that, damnit.

[MrJonno]

Mr. Jonno you are working on an antiquated principle that was frontier based and growth based instead of steady state and "better" based.
Current economic metrics are very wrongheaded.
First world societies do not need to grow to become wealthier and "better"> But the measurement sticks are all around growth.

The market for those in it is becoming wealthier and better, but eventually those who are not in the market will just burn it down. I'm talking about the growing % of people who are economically not viable basically from conception

[JimC]

...answers to future problems are unlikely to be found either in Das Capital...

"Das Kapital" does point out the fatal flaw of the logic in capitalism, though. Don't ask me to find the particular section it has been treated in, please. I have not looked at those volumes for 35 years and, as you may be able to appreciate, the location where this issue is addressed is exceedingly difficult to find by keyword searches on the text available at various internet sites.

What I am fairly sure of is that answers to future problems are indeed unlikely to be found in Marx's writings, at least going by history. So far all successful attempts to overthrow the ruling classes and establish a dictatorship of the proletariat have resulted in a dictatorship alright, but the proletariat had no part in that as soon as the violent overthrow was accomplished.

• We'll be fighting in the streets
  With our children at our feet
  And the morals that they worship will be gone
  And the men who spurred us on
  Sit in judgement of all wrong
  They decide and the shotgun sings the song
  
  ...
  
  Change it had to come
  We knew it all along
  We were liberated from the fall that's all
  But the world looks just the same
  And history ain't changed
  'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war
  
  ...
  
  There's nothing in the street
  Looks any different to me
  And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
  
  ...
  
  Meet the new boss
  Same as the old boss

Can't remember who wrote that, damnit.

I'm pretty sure it was Pete Townsend, of The Who...

[Blind groper]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/gorill ... tac,30860/

[Hermit]

I'm pretty sure it was Pete Townsend, of The Who...

Townshend

Was the pun too subtle?

[JimC]

I'm pretty sure it was Pete Townsend, of The Who...

Townshend

Was the pun too subtle?