Untold History of the United States

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JimC
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by JimC » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:59 am

rEvolutionist wrote:

requoted so that gawdzilla can read it. There's yet more quotes in there from the very top of the military commanders in the US saying how the bomb wasn't necessary for japanese surrender. Can you address those quotes directly?
The article you quoted via sandinista is an opinion piece. There are claimed statements from US military men, but no citations or links to the original documents.

In any case, there was immense rivalry between various factions of the US military towards the end of the war; opinions by a naval man, for example, may be an attempt to belittle the attempt by the Army Air Force to become a separate service.

The opinions of many other commanders that I have read (e.g.. Field Marshal Slim, of Burma fame, in "Defeat into Victory") was that the Japanese Army, both in Japan and in the occupied territories, was ready and willing to go down fighting, to the last man if needed. It was a perfectly reasonable expectation for military commanders on the ground that the continuation of the ground war, in SE Asia, China, and finally Japan, would be a drawn out, bloody affair. The hints that Pilger et al make about Japan putting out serious peace feelers are just that - hints and hearsay, with no clear citations (which is what you wanted to see, I believe)

As I've said earlier, the fact that cynical US politicians were looking for a side benefit in terms of impressing Russia doesn't alter the argument that using the bombs prevented many more casualties than they caused.
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:24 am

If those statements are real, what evidence do you have to suggest that it was "rivalry" that prompted them?
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by sandinista » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:52 am

rEvolutionist wrote:Dunno if these guys are "proper" historians or not...
I like that this was not even given a response by those claiming the truth in myth. Proper historians have, in fact, pointed out that the bombing of Japan was unnecessary and that the whole claim that it was necessary is nothing but an american myth. Of couse, myths die hard for true patriots.
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by JimC » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:31 am

sandinista wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Dunno if these guys are "proper" historians or not...
I like that this was not even given a response by those claiming the truth in myth. Proper historians have, in fact, pointed out that the bombing of Japan was unnecessary and that the whole claim that it was necessary is nothing but an american myth. Of couse, myths die hard for true patriots.
"Proper historians" being those of the left, naturally... :roll:
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by sandinista » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:36 am

seriously? I mean...do none of you have anything worth writing down? I never said a thing about "proper" historians. Left or not.
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by sandinista » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:35 am

watching episode 9. Whatever anyone may think, there is some great footage in this doc. Wow, watching the US use propaganda on television was hilarious. Seems they have to try a lot harder now or something. The Iraq war incubator story, unbelievable that a government can do that and still have trust from the public.
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:06 pm

JimC wrote:
sandinista wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Dunno if these guys are "proper" historians or not...
I like that this was not even given a response by those claiming the truth in myth. Proper historians have, in fact, pointed out that the bombing of Japan was unnecessary and that the whole claim that it was necessary is nothing but an american myth. Of couse, myths die hard for true patriots.
"Proper historians" being those of the left, naturally... :roll:
"Proper historians"? :funny:
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:12 pm

You might want to check that first before laughing too much. :coffee:
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:12 pm

The first what?
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:12 pm

the first use of that term
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:15 pm

Which would be?
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:25 pm

:fp:
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:26 pm

I asked you for the first use and you can't do that? Okay then.
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:28 pm

Look it up yourself. You might learn something.
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Re: Untold History of the United States

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:28 pm

Now I'll just do what you did earlier. :tantrum:
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