Untold History of the United States

[tattuchu]

Are we or are we not the good guys? ARE WE OR ARE WE NOT THE FUCKING GOOD GUYS? If we're not the good guys, then take the goddamn Constitution and the Bill of Rights and throw them in the fucking trash because they're worthless.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And, the question still stands -- you're Harry Truman in August, 1945. What do you do instead?

Easy. Consider Japan was steeped in the 'way of the samurai' at the time. Issue a public challenge to the Emperor to settle the issue in a duel. As they are of equal status, the Emperor must accept. Win the duel, war over.

But they weren't of equal status. Showa was a god.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Are we or are we not the good guys? ARE WE OR ARE WE NOT THE FUCKING GOOD GUYS? If we're not the good guys, then take the goddamn Constitution and the Bill of Rights and throw them in the fucking trash because they're worthless.

Calm the fuck down. War ain't pretty. Sheltered as you have been you must know that.

[sandinista]

I've never seen any evidence that they were about to surrender when Hiroshima happened, only idle speculation.

Of course you haven't you've got the american historical blinders on.

If you can prove that surrender was indeed imminent,

Prove to me that they weren't ready to surrender, not just idle speculation, prove it.

[Ian]

So we can do whatever we like, then, no matter how heinous, because we're the United States and that makes it okay. We make our own rules *waves flag*

With this sort of attitude, we fucking deserved 9-11

I hope Iran makes some nuclear bombs and annihilates our piece of shit country. The last survivors will say, "Hey, that's not fair! Only we get to use nuclear bombs!" And they'll say that right before their skin sloughs off and the last of us fucking retards die of radiation poisoning. And we'll fucking deserve it, every fucking inch of it

Are you drinking?

No, we cannot "do whatever we like". Sheesh. The bombs were a despicable and horrific way of ending the war quickly. Many, many more hundreds of thousands of people would have died had the war dragged on... and I'm not even talking about the invasion of Japan.

Don't just whine about what Truman did. Give an alternative and explain how realistic it would have been.

[sandinista]

The bombs were a despicable and horrific way of ending the war quickly. Many, many more hundreds of thousands of people would have died had the war dragged on

Prove it.

[Ian]

I've never seen any evidence that they were about to surrender when Hiroshima happened, only idle speculation.

Of course you haven't you've got the american historical blinders on.

If you can prove that surrender was indeed imminent,

Prove to me that they weren't ready to surrender, not just idle speculation, prove it.

Nevermind that this is a Russell's Teapot... but they weren't surrenduring! They made no signal prior to Hiroshima, not even after the Soviet invasion.

There, I just proved it.

The onus is on you to disprove it. This is how critical thinking works, Sandi. If they were so ready to surrender, then explain, with proven sources, why they had not yet done so. If you can do that, I swear I'll change my mind about this.

[Ian]

The bombs were a despicable and horrific way of ending the war quickly. Many, many more hundreds of thousands of people would have died had the war dragged on

Prove it.

Read Zilla's comments about the prisoners in Malaysia alone.

Proved.

[tattuchu]

So we can do whatever we like, then, no matter how heinous, because we're the United States and that makes it okay. We make our own rules *waves flag*

With this sort of attitude, we fucking deserved 9-11

I hope Iran makes some nuclear bombs and annihilates our piece of shit country. The last survivors will say, "Hey, that's not fair! Only we get to use nuclear bombs!" And they'll say that right before their skin sloughs off and the last of us fucking retards die of radiation poisoning. And we'll fucking deserve it, every fucking inch of it

Tat, of all the ways to end the war, this was the fastest, so it saved the most lives. And you can't put our current knowledge of the effects of radiation on the decision-makers back then. If you'd have read the thread you'd know better.

So the end justifies the means. And we can do whatever we want. Our actions happen in a vacuum and have no consequences. Jolly good. I'm off to rape someone right now. I'm horny and I need to get laid. The end result is the important thing. Best to buy a gun. When I get finished raping, I'll kill the useless cunt. That way she can't tell on me. Hey, I think I'm getting the hang of this new morality (or lack thereof). Whatever is in my own best interests is A-Okay. And fortunately EVERYTHING is in my own best interests

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Tat, 150,000 Allied POWs were due to die on August 16th, men, women, and children. The commander of the Japanese forces in Malaya had ordered them killed when the first Allied troops hit the invasion beaches. Japan surrendered the day before that invasion was due. In China the fighting stopped and thousands of casualties a day were stopped.

[Jason]

So we can do whatever we like, then, no matter how heinous, because we're the United States and that makes it okay. We make our own rules *waves flag*

With this sort of attitude, we fucking deserved 9-11

I hope Iran makes some nuclear bombs and annihilates our piece of shit country. The last survivors will say, "Hey, that's not fair! Only we get to use nuclear bombs!" And they'll say that right before their skin sloughs off and the last of us fucking retards die of radiation poisoning. And we'll fucking deserve it, every fucking inch of it

Tat, of all the ways to end the war, this was the fastest, so it saved the most lives. And you can't put our current knowledge of the effects of radiation on the decision-makers back then. If you'd have read the thread you'd know better.

The full effects of radiation exposure may not have been known, but from as far back as 1902 reports of radiation causing skin cancer were delivered. In 1927 a paper was published on the genetic effects of radiation exposure (the guy won a Nobel prize in 1946 ironically). When the bomb was being developed in the 1940s the effects of radiation exposure were quite well known and much study was devoted to further the understanding of them during that development.

[Ian]

Are we or are we not the good guys? ARE WE OR ARE WE NOT THE FUCKING GOOD GUYS? If we're not the good guys, then take the goddamn Constitution and the Bill of Rights and throw them in the fucking trash because they're worthless.

Stop whining and give us a reasonable alternative that would've ended the war quicker.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The full effects of radiation exposure may not have been known, but from as far back as 1902 reports of radiation causing skin cancer were delivered. In 1927 a paper was published on the genetic effects of radiation exposure (the guy won a Nobel prize in 1946 ironically). When the bomb was being developed in the 1940s the effects of radiation exposure were quite well known and much study was devoted to further the understanding of them during that development.

As I said, troops would have been moved through ground zero one half hour after a bomb was used. This includes the generals in charge in some cases. The USBS had people in Hiroshima days after the surrender went into effect. In the movie "Fat Man and Little Boy" they recreate a core going critical and the scientists in charge working out who got a lethal dose based on the distance from the core. They didn't understand then that they had all got a serious dose.

[sandinista]

I've never seen any evidence that they were about to surrender when Hiroshima happened, only idle speculation.

Of course you haven't you've got the american historical blinders on.

If you can prove that surrender was indeed imminent,

Prove to me that they weren't ready to surrender, not just idle speculation, prove it.

Nevermind that this is a Russell's Teapot... but they weren't surrenduring! They made no signal prior to Hiroshima, not even after the Soviet invasion.

There, I just proved it.

The onus is on you to disprove it. This is how critical thinking works, Sandi.

your ridiculous, the onus is on you. Your telling me "Thats how it works"? Holy shit man, get over yourself. I've already posted links to articles and quotes regrding Japanese surrender, there I just proved it.

I'm asking you to prove your claim that thousands more would have died had the bombs NOT been dropped. You're going to turn around and tell me I have to prove the opposite. You just look silly now. Sillier than you usually do that is. The best was "read zillas post" haha, that one had me

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Revisionist literature aside, the Japanese were not interested in surrender. It was dangerous even to speak of it.