Untold History of the United States

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Watch propaganda from both sides, check facts, and come to your own conclusions? That's hard work.

Exactly what most people don't do it. But you have to filter the propaganda out and find the facts, or you're just running in place.

[Animavore]

But so is a portrayal of the US as a white-hatted warrior for truth, justice and democracy, whose motivations are as pure as the driven snow. That ideological position has had a lot of air play over the years...

Has it had a lot of air play? Maybe in the '60s. Contemporary historical accounts tend to show the insanity on both sides.

By air play, I mean by mainstream media, and by popular culture, as portrayed in many films and TV series. Serious political commentators and historians would not be pushing it, but in this era of sound bites and shallow media commentary, their impact is minimal.

Wait! Are you saying Rambo 3 wasn't how it happened?

[sandinista]

I've seen episodes 1-8, and I would have to say this could very well be the most biased, ideologically tainted "historical" account I have ever seen. They lay the blame for the Cold War entirely at America's feet, and portray the Soviets as hapless victims. Hilarious.

Oliver Stone is a ridiculous man.

I would say you are incorrect. I didn't find it biased or any more ideologically tainted than most docs. I mean every doc has an ideological basis. It was quite refreshing to watch something from a different, non americanized pov.

[Seabass]

But so is a portrayal of the US as a white-hatted warrior for truth, justice and democracy, whose motivations are as pure as the driven snow. That ideological position has had a lot of air play over the years...

Has it had a lot of air play? Maybe in the '60s. Contemporary historical accounts tend to show the insanity on both sides.

By air play, I mean by mainstream media, and by popular culture, as portrayed in many films and TV series. Serious political commentators and historians would not be pushing it, but in this era of sound bites and shallow media commentary, their impact is minimal.

Do you have some examples?

Every Vietnam war movie ever made is anti war. MASH was anti war. Strangelove was anti war. Fail-safe was anti-war. The Tom Clancy cold war movies (Hunt for Red October, etc) did not portray either side as good or evil. Che movies, WarGames, The Good Shepherd, etc, etc...

The closest to what you describe that I can think of would be maybe Red Dawn. Lol.

The more I think about it, the more it seems American Cold War movies and TV overwhelmingly tend to portray the U.S. government and CIA in a rather negative light.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Ever seen "Siege of Firebase Gloria"?

[Seabass]

Ever seen "Siege of Firebase Gloria"?

No, is it good?

[sandinista]

But so is a portrayal of the US as a white-hatted warrior for truth, justice and democracy, whose motivations are as pure as the driven snow. That ideological position has had a lot of air play over the years...

Has it had a lot of air play? Maybe in the '60s. Contemporary historical accounts tend to show the insanity on both sides.

By air play, I mean by mainstream media, and by popular culture, as portrayed in many films and TV series. Serious political commentators and historians would not be pushing it, but in this era of sound bites and shallow media commentary, their impact is minimal.

Do you have some examples?

Every Vietnam war movie ever made is anti war. MASH was anti war. Strangelove was anti war. Fail-safe was anti-war. The Tom Clancy cold war movies (Hunt for Red October, etc) did not portray either side as good or evil. Che movies, WarGames, The Good Shepherd, etc, etc...

The closest to what you describe that I can think of would be maybe Red Dawn. Lol.

The more I think about it, the more it seems American Cold War movies and TV overwhelmingly tend to portray the U.S. government and CIA in a rather negative light.

the short list

1. Red Dawn
2. The Day After
3. War Games
4. Firefox
5. Rambo III
6. Red Scorpion
7. Top Gun
8. Rocky IV
9. Invasion USA
10. Spies Like Us

[Jason]

But so is a portrayal of the US as a white-hatted warrior for truth, justice and democracy, whose motivations are as pure as the driven snow. That ideological position has had a lot of air play over the years...

Has it had a lot of air play? Maybe in the '60s. Contemporary historical accounts tend to show the insanity on both sides.

By air play, I mean by mainstream media, and by popular culture, as portrayed in many films and TV series. Serious political commentators and historians would not be pushing it, but in this era of sound bites and shallow media commentary, their impact is minimal.

Do you have some examples?

Every Vietnam war movie ever made is anti war. MASH was anti war. Strangelove was anti war. Fail-safe was anti-war. The Tom Clancy cold war movies (Hunt for Red October, etc) did not portray either side as good or evil. Che movies, WarGames, The Good Shepherd, etc, etc...

The closest to what you describe that I can think of would be maybe Red Dawn. Lol.

The more I think about it, the more it seems American Cold War movies and TV overwhelmingly tend to portray the U.S. government and CIA in a rather negative light.

I think 'negative, but necessary' would be more accurate. In other words "we do bad things, but it's for the greater good". Portraying these agencies as a necessary evil is a much more effective method of propaganda than outright 'white knighting'.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Ever seen "Siege of Firebase Gloria"?

No, is it good?

It's insane. R. Lee Ermey. (Full Metal Jacket was 1987, this ws 1989.)

[sandinista]

In other words "we do bad things, but it's for the greater good".

Yah that tends to be the propaganda line. The main thing US propagandists do is play with omission. Instead of flat out lying, which, of course is also done, they tend to just selectively cherry pick historical events that make them look good and leave the ones that make them look bad out. As for people trying to make out like this doc is biased or slanted or whatever, I imagine that just comes from their preconceived, rooted ideological biases. I'm sure this doc makes a lot of people angry, as can be seen by this thread, but that's generally just because sometimes the truth hurts, especially when the truth is made available to a wider public.

[Seabass]

Ever seen "Siege of Firebase Gloria"?

No, is it good?

It's insane. R. Lee Ermey. (Full Metal Jacket was 1987, this ws 1989.)

Downloading it now.

[mistermack]

If it IS biased and one sided, I suppose Oliver Stone thought it was legitimate to fight shite with shite.
He might have a case. But I'm not tempted to watch it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If it IS biased and one sided, I suppose Oliver Stone thought it was legitimate to fight shite with shite.
He might have a case. But I'm not tempted to watch it.

Historiography, the first class you take at grad school, will be very happy with Mr. Stoned's videos.

[sandinista]

If it IS biased and one sided, I suppose Oliver Stone thought it was legitimate to fight shite with shite.
He might have a case. But I'm not tempted to watch it.

It's not biased or one sided. It may appear to be, but only to those with a set ideology which the doc may run counter to. Mainstream news and history has been so biased for so long anything that runs counter to that will appear to be biased. Funny how that has happened.

[Gawdzilla Sama]