Untold History of the United States

[redunderthebed]

Didn't they already hold half of China?

Manchuria wasn't from what i could see half of china a fair chunk yes half err no.

[pErvinalia]

You're correct, it was 37.8164%

[FBM]

There's a whole lof of Siberia between here and there.

japaneseheldlandww2.gif (38.18 KiB) Viewed 138 times

[Rum]

Zilla knows his stuff (rEv/Sandi) as do I to a less detailed level. And as Jim says 'what ifs' are pointless.

The main point though is that no matter how you cut it the main problem for Germany and Japan was that their ambitions completely over extended their capabilities and resources. Borderline maybe without America in the mix, but once it was it was only a matter of time.

[FBM]

Yeah, I was intentionally skipping over the part where the Japanese would be fighting the Red Army while trying to survive Siberia. Like Zilla said, they tried and couldn't do it.

[pErvinalia]

Zilla knows his stuff (rEv/Sandi) as do I to a less detailed level. And as Jim says 'what ifs' are pointless.

They are not "pointless" as they are interesting. If what STone said was right, and it the Germans and Japanese worked together to defeat russia, we would be living in a totally different world. It's an interesting thing to ponder, as far as I am concerned. Same as pondering anything theoretical.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, I was intentionally skipping over the part where the Japanese would be fighting the Red Army while trying to survive Siberia. Like Zilla said, they tried and couldn't do it.

The point is that the Germans weren't full on assaulting the ruski's in the west at the same time as the japs were having a crack (if i remember the timeline correctly).

[pErvinalia]

I've got no idea what is right or wrong here, but in terms of logical arguments, some of yours (plural) aren't making sense.

[Rum]

Well you can ponder all you like. There's no law against it! But if part of one's pondering includes incorrect factual information or an rroneous starting point then ones speculations are even less based in reality. The chances of Japan and Germany ever coordinating their strategies in detail were very remote indeed.

[pErvinalia]

The likelihood of it or not has nothing to do with mentioning that if they did then xyz would have happened. That's all that is being said here. Have some of you even watched the episode?

[Rum]

Yes I have. And I'm not disagreeing with you. Some really good fiction has come out of alternative history speculation. It's simply the case that a more probable 'split' in events is to me rather more interesting. If for example, Germany had held off invading Russia, or carried on bombing the UKs airfields instead of switching to blitzing our cities. Such events were rather more likely and would have shaped history significantly.

[pErvinalia]

No one is talking about 'probability'. All I said that started this silliness is that I didn't realise that the Germans and the Japanese were acting so separately and uncoordinated.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

eRv, I won't do the work for you.

As Sandi said, all history is babble to a degree. History is massively laden with interpretation. Hearing different interpretations is a good thing, not a bad thing.

If you don't get your facts straight it certainly is babble, isn't it?

[pErvinalia]

Historical facts aren't like scientific "facts". There's a lot of interpretation and choice of what information to present. You only have to peruse some history books to know that.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Historical facts aren't like scientific "facts". There's a lot of interpretation. You only have to peruse some history books to know that.

Yeah, I should do that someday.